Question for the masses

[RCH]

I have a female yellow lab that i am thinking about breeding. If i do i am going to keep one of the male pups. I was wondering if anyone can give me some pros and cons of keeping one of the pups i.e. is it harder to train and is it harder to seperate them, do you really ave to work at seperating them as the pup grows up.(not field trial dog). Or is it easier to buy a male pup from somewhere else. All comments would be greatly appreciated!

[Candor]

Buying a pup is 10x easier than breeding for one.

IMO you have to ask yourself "why breed"? I speculate that you can get a very good dog that meets your needs far better by purchasing one than by trying to breed your own. Having pups is a pain in the arse and you really should know what your bitch's hips are before considering breeding.

The only reason I would consider breeding my own dog is if I felt like I truly have something unique...the liklihood of that is very low. My current mutt has one of the best combinations of retrieving desire and looks of any lab I have ever seen at a hunt test, field trial, or others hunting dog...but I don't know that I will breed him.

Ask yourself what you want in a puppy and why you would breed. Most people in your category do it as an emotional reason...because they want to continue the line. If you think the emotions truly justify this and don't believe it to be an entirely logic driven decision then have at it.

I don't believe that trying to train around the mother will be a factor. You want to separate your dogs for training purposes regardless of whether they are related or not. Train them individually.

[big dog momma]

Since it sounds like you do not have a clue what you are doing go buy a puppy from someone who does. Also go get some lessons from a pro on how to train. By your questions it seems that you haven't trained the female either so their is no need to breed an unproven bitch.Their are lots of nice pups avaliable if you look. Working Retriever Central is a good place to start.

[RCH]

Actually there bdm, don't need to be an asshole , but my bitch was doing 250 yd retrieves at 10 months old in Canada, so i don't believe that is an issue there, but thanks for the concern. That dog has had more green in its mouth than half the people on this site's dogs have had ever

[DUCK MASTER]

rch - dont breed that dog she might bight you and plus you might not be her type. j/k

sounds like your dog is pretty good. i have got a 14 week old black and she is ligtning fast. her brother is very good but just a liitle slower.

[big dog momma]

All I can go by is your questions. It seems as if you were not very knowledgeable about retrievers and retriever training by your first comments. I see you are somewhat knowledgeable about dogs by your latter post. Now just because you dog made a 250yd retrieve in Canada that is only part of what a breedable lab should do. Does she do multiple marks? How does she handle? Is she trainable? Does she hunt well with other dogs? If she has achieved a hunt test title we would know these things.Then we could give you an answere if you should breed her.

[2thDoc]

so you are saying that only dogs that run field trials should breed?

hogwash.

[Candor]

I think he is saying that if the dog had a hunt test title you would know the answer to what level the dog had been trained to. ie if a dog has a master title I know the dog is capable of doing triples and handles well...ie the dog has some base level of marking skills and is trainable for handling. Some labs are not. This doesn't imply that if they don't have the title they can't do these things but pretty much guarantees that if they do have the title they can.

Don't be so sensitive 2thy.

[HuntinCosta]

a hunt test is not a field trial. its a way of proving your dogs abilities. we dont run field trials.

Handling a dog is part of having a good retriever. and it comes in very handy in hunting situations. no where did he say you have to have a field trial champion to breed. but a dog showing the ability to handle and do multiple retrieves is a way of showing ability that should be bred. And many people dont choose to do hunt tests but hunt tests are a way of proving a dogs ability for breeding purposes. They arent field trials.

[RCH]

She is no field trial champion because that is not what i trained her for. She isn't whistle trained because it is so god damn annoying when you are hunting with someone who is jumping up blowing his whistle throwing his arms in every direction and flayling everywhere.(but if that is what you do that is fine) Been on to many of those hunts with that type of bullshit, all they are doing is flaring ducks.What she is trained for is to sit in my finisher or next to me stay at my side until given the command. She watches the ducks fly around and come in, she watches the gun and she goes after what falls to the ground and brings it back with enthusiasm. She can get sent after birds that she doesn't know went down(blind retrieve). She does exactly what I trained her to do and that is duck hunt. She has a great personality and a hell of a drive. Hopefully that will help

[HuntinCosta]

you sound pretty ignorant about a well trained dog, and you've obviously never seen a well trained dog if you think people are annoying that blow whistles. you dont have to train a dog with a whistle but someone who knows how to do it right is smarter than what you just explained. what you explained is ignorance

[RCH]

Tell me how, a dog that does everything i tell it when i tell, and loves doing it, is ignorance. It is a dog that has not been molested by people who shock their dogs into being robots that do what they want or they get the shit shocked out of them. And yes it is annoying to here someone laying on the whistle every 10 seconds ruining my very peaceful outdoor experience. And so again your dog costa is probably the cats meow to labs. Again what is ignorant about having a lab do evrything I want at the same time allowing the dog to actually hunt on its own. Please enlighten oh masterful dog trainer

[Browning Gold 3.5]

Originally posted by RCH:
... She isn't whistle trained because it is so ... annoying when you are hunting with someone who is jumping up blowing his whistle throwing his arms in every direction and flayling everywhere.(but if that is what you do that is fine) Been on to many of those hunts with that type of bullshit, all they are doing is flaring ducks.

First off after quoting you I edited out you useing the Lord's name in vain ....... there's no sense in getting worked up over the internet to use such words.

Now then, I agree, it sounds like someone needs to spend 30 minutes a day with their lab. There shouldn't be all that "jumping up blowing his whistle throwing his arms in every direction". Good precise commands with accurate timely casts are the name of the game (hunting, field trials or hunt tests).

And lastly............ I wish I had to worry about flaring ducks.......... 'SC, The Ain't No Duck Capitol of The World'

[RCH]

Look HIC, if this is ignorance, then i don't know what to tell you because when my dog brings this back there are no complaints on my end, and if this isn't enough for a hunt test then i am done with the discussion!

[RCH]

[RCH]

Sorry for the GD, just a little fired up

[Candor]

imo there is a difference between gd and GD. Capitalizing "God" refers to God. using a lower case "god" is an expression. A simple difference.

RCH...one of the big benefits of whistle training is it allows you to communicate with your dog when they can't hear your voice. I have been in situations where it was critical to communicate with my dog and he couldn't hear me yell. The whistle saved a potential major mishap.

Most folks you hear flailing around on a whistle don't have trained dogs nor are they trained handlers. Whistle training is a superior way just like teaching a dog hand signals. But it is absolutely not necessary to have a dog trained to that level to have a dog that you can be tickled pink with.

We as dog trainers should seek to first understand the problem before we try to solve it. This is not a thread about hunt tests or field trials or anything else.

It was a simple, benign question that has gotten twisted.

The question you need to ask RCH is "why do you want to breed?" IMO a 250 yard retrieve is a good thing but I believe you could easily get what you expect/need from a dog by buying a pup.

Breeding is a pain in the arse.... Much easier to get what you want by researching litters and coming off the hip for $600-1000 and being done with it. You don't have to mess with having your dog's hips x-rayed, finding a suitable stud, shots, whelping box, tending to the litter, selling pups, meeting prospective dog owners....uggg leave that to the folks that enjoy it. Spend your time killing ducks and training your dog.

[HuntinCosta]

a quick handle to a downed bird will always be welcome in my duck boat over an extended hunt. which one do you think will flare more birds?

[RCH]

so hic, now it is down to which is faster and not ignorance anymore. There are very few times that my dog has flared ducks, and if the duck gets that far away Candor where you need the whistle, i guarantee you spend more time standing up and whistling to your dog than what you think!I have been there and seen these great master champion dogs getting whistled at for a down duck that ends up taking up more time and effort than you think. I am happy for the ones that have there dogs tuned in to the whistle and are very good. And HuntinCosta did you have your dog shocked trained?

[RCH]

Candor, How would you know if i don't enjoy having puppies. Are u saying that u are a proffesional and only you can breed and train dogs that are acceptable for others to buy. I have grown up hunting off horseback with all the old colored folks and been around training deer dogs as well as fox hounds for a while. You have no right to tell me to leave it up to the people that enjoy it, because i enjoy it more than the next man. Sorry only ordinary duck hunters can't breed dogs up to standard. What is "standard"? How did you first start training/litter?