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Thread: Suppressor Process Question

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodieSC View Post
    Great info, Chuck & Swamp. That's helpful to know.

    OK, I guess I lied and didn't mean to... a few more questions come to mind:

    - Can you include non-family members in the Trust so that they can legally fire a gun with your suppressor on it? As I understand it, it's illegal for a non-owner or Trust member to even fire one shot through one. Correct? If so, I'm thinking there's a number of names I'd want to add.

    - Can you ever sell a suppressor once it's in the Trust and it's engraved? Such as what do you do if new technology comes out and you want to upgrade, etc?

    Btw, I'm on my tablet right now and can't figure out how to link the site, but I just read an update that the 41P review is probably going to push back to January, 2016, and that all apps, etc, that have been received by the ATF as of whatever that date is will be grandfathered.

    Thanks.

    They can fire your weapon but you must be present. You can both be on the range together but you can't leave the sbr or suppressor with them while you run to grab a bite to eat.

    You can sell a suppressor but the buyer has to fill out a form 4 and pay the atf tax stamp.

    You don't engrave a suppressor unless you build it yourself.

    41p will require trusted to be fingerprinted and photos taken just like the individual route now. Hopefully it gets defunded but who knows.
    Last edited by Chuck the Duck Slayer; 12-23-2015 at 11:49 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Rat View Post
    It's addictive. Taking off from the children's book:

    "If you build a SBR, you are gonna want a Saker 556K suppressor for it"

    Is always something. I shouldn't have handled that 556K at PSA last week.
    Why would you not get a 7.62 can so you can run it on your 556 build. Easier to go down than to go up. Besides don't you have an ak?
    Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highstrung View Post
    I like fishing topwater. Will one of you jot down some of this redneck ghetto slang and the definitions for those of us who weren't born with a plastic spoon in our mouths?

  3. #43
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    I have a SilencerCo Saker 762. Great can, my "go to" can for AR-15 and future AR-10 work. Great QD system on the SilencerCo Trifecta muzzle brakes, and I can change the 7.62mm end cap for a 5.56mm and turn it in to an even more effective 5.56mm suppressor.

    The thing about the Saker 556 K is that, while it's a dedicated 5.56mm can, it's a full 6 ounces lighter (and almost 2 inches shorter) than the 7.62 model. At the end of the day, 6 less ounces of can on the end of a SBR, along with the 2 inches of reduction, are really enticing. It's a want, not a need, and, if they are going to push 41P next month, I may not pursue it.

    On the AK - no, I am currently without a Kalashnikov. Considering options down the road, but that's a future addition. I won't suppress it when I get it. Suppressing most AK's is problematic, with the gas venting going on and issues with barrels having less than ideally concentric threading in many cases.
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  4. #44
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    If you obtain a suppressor first, and then apply for a trust, is there any transfer fee or anything to move that suppressor in to the trust?

    Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?
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  5. #45
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    Yes. It will be "transferring" from you to the trust, which means another $200 bucks.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tha Dick View Post
    Yes. It will be "transferring" from you to the trust, which means another $200 bucks.
    I suspected as such, which seems like robbery to me if the same person who owns the suppressor is also the trustee of the trust.

    We need to get Congress to abolish the NFA and refund all previous fees paid. Hell, that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the promises being made by Ol' Bernie.
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  7. #47
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    Don't hold your breath on any changes.
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  8. #48
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    LOL... I hear you. It would make too much sense.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodieSC View Post
    If you obtain a suppressor first, and then apply for a trust, is there any transfer fee or anything to move that suppressor in to the trust?

    Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?
    41F Info

    If you want anyone else to be able to possess and use the trust items just make them a co-trustee. I made my son the co-trustee and the beneficiary.

    This is where I got my NFA Trust and they have a good FAQ on NFA Trusts
    The Elites don't fear the tall nails, government possesses both the will and the means to crush those folks. What the Elites do fear (or should fear) are the quiet men and women, with low profiles, hard hearts, long memories, and detailed target folders for action as they choose.

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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mergie Master View Post
    41F Info

    If you want anyone else to be able to possess and use the trust items just make them a co-trustee. I made my son the co-trustee and the beneficiary.

    This is where I got my NFA Trust and they have a good FAQ on NFA Trusts
    It's been a little while since I've looked at this stuff, and need to decide what to do soon, but this point quoted below is opposite from what I thought I remembered from something I read a few months back. OR... my memory is just going bad...

    Is there a limit to the number of Co-Trustees?

    A: No limit, however, keep in mind that they need to sign and notarize the Trust initially. Also an important consideration is the new stuff starting July 2016 with 41F and Co-Trustee need to submit fingerprint cards and photographs (see HERE for more info on that). We include amendment templates for you to amend the Trust at your convenience to make these and other changes down the road. It’s simple to do so don’t feel like you need to include the extended family off the bat, remember our Trusts are flexible in the future as a rule.
    I could have sworn that 41F eliminated the need for fingerprints and pictures, which was why I was thinking of waiting instead of applying under 41P.

    Anyway, given that, please allow me to repeat the question I asked above...
    Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?
    Thanks!
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  11. #51
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    Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?
    If you establish the trust before July 13 (41F start date) it will be grandfathered and you won't have to:

    • Complete an ATF Form 5320.23. Form 5320.23 would require certain identifying information for each responsible person, including each responsible person’s full name, position, Social Security number (optional), home address, date and place of birth, and country of citizenship;

    • Submit a 2 x 2-inch passport style photographs of each responsible person taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application;

    • Submit two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card) for each responsible person.

    • You and any Co-Trustees on the Trust will be required when submitting a tax stamp application to notify the Sheriff, but WILL NOT require their “approval”. (“requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO”)

    If you don't have the trust established (signed, witnessed and notarized) before 41F kicks in you will have to take all the steps above when you purchase an item.
    Last edited by Mergie Master; 04-29-2016 at 04:47 PM.
    The Elites don't fear the tall nails, government possesses both the will and the means to crush those folks. What the Elites do fear (or should fear) are the quiet men and women, with low profiles, hard hearts, long memories, and detailed target folders for action as they choose.

    "I here repeat, & would willingly proclaim, my unmitigated hatred to Yankee rule—to all political, social and business connections with Yankees, & to the perfidious, malignant, & vile Yankee race."

  12. #52
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    A suppressed .300 Blackout with subsonic rounds sounds like a .22 and is extremely accurate to 100 yards, which makes it the perfect short-range meat gun!
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mergie Master View Post
    If you establish the trust before July 13 (41F start date) it will be grandfathered and you won't have to:

    • Complete an ATF Form 5320.23. Form 5320.23 would require certain identifying information for each responsible person, including each responsible person’s full name, position, Social Security number (optional), home address, date and place of birth, and country of citizenship;

    • Submit a 2 x 2-inch passport style photographs of each responsible person taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application;

    • Submit two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card) for each responsible person.

    • You and any Co-Trustees on the Trust will be required when submitting a tax stamp application to notify the Sheriff, but WILL NOT require their “approval”. (“requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO”)

    If you don't have the trust established (signed, witnessed and notarized) before 41F kicks in you will have to take all the steps above when you purchase an item.
    Mergie,

    I don't mean to argue with your point here, but I've just been advised differently on this point regarding the date on the Trust.

    Inasmuch as I've gotten too busy with other stuff and forgot about getting a Trust set up, I debated whether to run around today to get one notarized, etc, because of this statement above, which seemed to make all the sense in the world based on 'Grandfathering' as we all know it.

    I've also not been able to find any of the .22 suppressors I'm interested in, in stock, so this Trust question became a key point to me.

    However, I just talked to the lawyer who operates the NFA Lawyers LLC web site - https://nfalawyers.com - and asked him if it made ANY difference to the procedures followed when submitting any NFA application after tomorrow as to whether I had a Trust set up before 7/13/2016 versus on or after 7/13/2016. His response was an unequivocal, "No. No matter what date is on your Trust - pre or post 7/13/2016 - you will have to submit fingerprints, pictures, etc, with any NFA item application."

    He could have told me 'Yes' and had a sale right there, with me running up to the bank to have it notarized today, but he said it made no difference on whether I would have to submit fingerprints and pictures, et al, after tomorrow. The ONLY difference would be if I actually submitted/postmarked the NFA application today, but anything submitted after tomorrow goes under the new rules, no matter how old your Trust is.

    He was the only actual lawyer I could get on the phone this morning so I'm going to make the assumption that he knows what he's talking about.

    Does anyone know anything about this that might conflict with what I've just posted? If so, please post up!
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  14. #54
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    Does anyone know the pros/cons of trust vs LLC for NFA items?
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  15. #55
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    From what I've been told, the advantage to a trust vs a personal purchase is essentially gone. If your concern was passing the suppressor or other item to someone upon your death, it can be done without being on a trust so long as that person is an heir in the will. And I think it's only a $5 transfer.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting " - Col. Townsend Whelen

  16. #56
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    During the probate period, the NFA item in an estate might have to be held by a class III dealer. If it's in a trust, the other trust members can possess it immediately.

    An LLC has to be registered with the Secretary of State. A 199 Trust does not.

  17. #57
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    Silencerco has a "free" ($5 shipping fee) guide to buying a suppressor.

    https://silencerco.com/suppressed/

    I just ordered it and will post an update once I see it.

  18. #58
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    Not sure this is accurate but someone told me if you have a business that is a Corporation you can buy the suppressor and register it with that corporation and it is just property of the corp and this keeps you from having to set up a separate trust just for the suppressor

  19. #59
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    That's pretty much what the trust is, like an LLC. I'm not sure I'd want to tie my business to the suppressor. If it was ever used in even a justified shooting, your business could be listed as a defendant in a any civil suit. One of the most important functions of a trust or corporation or LLC is to separate the liability exposure of the entities.

    Setting up a trust is pretty simple. Some of the dealers have the process so streamlined it's a non-issue. I heard of one that has a kiosk for setting everything up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmetto Bug View Post
    That's pretty much what the trust is, like an LLC. I'm not sure I'd want to tie my business to the suppressor. If it was ever used in even a justified shooting, your business could be listed as a defendant in a any civil suit. One of the most important functions of a trust or corporation or LLC is to separate the liability exposure of the entities.

    Setting up a trust is pretty simple. Some of the dealers have the process so streamlined it's a non-issue. I heard of one that has a kiosk for setting everything up.
    Thanks, not worried about the liability of it in one of the businesses . I keep retained earnings low in that one and not really much in way of assets.
    Last edited by tprice; 05-02-2019 at 06:50 AM.

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