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Thread: Ballistic Tips

  1. #1
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    I shoot 95 grain winchester ballistic tips through a remington .243

    What do ya'll think of ballistic tips vs. lead tip loads? My question reflects a doe that I shot a few weeks ago. I shot her in the right shoulder at 100 yards, came out her left shoulder just as small an exit wound as it went in. She ran close to 50 yards out of sight like she hadnt been hit.

    I've also shot one in past seasons with a lead tip 150 grain bullet, shot her in the chest and came out her left rib cage, exit wound was humungous. Any thoughts on the ballistic tip being too fast to cause serious damage to a deer/dropping her in her tracks?

    Thanks in advance.
    DK
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    From my experience ballistic tips are very accurate and shoot great groups. However they are better suited for long shots hence the small exit wound and the deer running. Also, I fell that a .243 with a 95 grain bullet is insufficient for a whitetail unless shooting neck shots. I prefer to shoot nosler partition bullets in my rifles. If the deer does run their is normally a great blood trail. Just recently I bought a 7mm wsm and have been shoot nosler ballistic tips. This bullet has the accuracy of the ballistic tip, but the penetration of a nosler which gives you the best of both worlds. Also it groups very well.
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    Thanks bugbuster, helps a little bit. What do you suggest shooting shorter shots with? what bullet/grain?

    DK
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    i shoot ballistic tips 168 grain through my 30-06 and i to have noticed that the exit wound is small. accurate, but small, so it's harder to trail the blood.
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    I've never had trouble with BT's causing small exits. At least not with well selected bullets. A lot of folks don't realize that, when you have an array of Ballistic Tips available in a specific caliber (for instance, 243 bullets from 60 or so grains up through 95), the lighter bullets may be designed with lighter jackets and for VARMINT killin'. And, thus, will have a potential to over-expand on deer sized game. If you shoot SMALLER BT's - you may get NO exit, or a small one caused by a fragment of the core.

    Now, the bullets ya'll are shooting are indeed listed as big game bullets - so you shouldn't be having over-expansion issues. A lot of the size of the exit has to do with whether it hits bone coming out as well - the bone fragments ("secondary projectiles") can really open up an exit.

    I think the Ballistic Tip is probably about the perfect bullet for deer sized game. I just wish they made 'em in a 140 grain weight for 6.5mm ammunition.
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    CWPINST is offline 168 grains of assistance from a distance
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    DK, There is no such thing as a bullet going too fast to open up. That contradicts physics. The complaint that some people have about Ballistic Tips is that they do too MUCH damage........not too little. The bullet combo that you used should be the ticket for deer. Take a look at Charles Ruth's study at Cedar Knoll. It basically said that there was no statistical difference in effectiveness in caliber .243 through .30, but there was a significant difference in effectiveness between hard bullets and soft bullets.

    The size of the exit wound depends on a number of things such as the construction of the bullet, velocity, and what it hits on the way through. Heck I hit a decent size doe in the ribs recently with a 150gr. 30 cal Ballistic Tip that had a MV of about 3100 fps. It didn't hit a rib on either side. The exit wound was about the size of a silver dollar maybe a little less. This was fairly normal to a tad on the small side of normal. I have had my 25-06 and 7mm08 make much larger and much smaller exit wounds.....so what! I don't think that you can derive anything meaningful from just one or two examples. A 50 to 60 yard run on a double lung shot is totally normal and expected, especially if the shot is low. You recovered the deer. That is what matters.

    Bottom line, shoot what your gun shoots accurately and hit them in the right spot and you won't have any trouble.

    The Cedar Knoll study can be found at www.scilowcountry.org under the tips and articles section.
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    For what it's worth, I shot a 95 pound doe last month with a 280 Ackley, and a 140 grain BT doing about 3200 fps. Hit the near side shoulder, exited just behind the last rib on the off side. Wound the size of a nickel on the exit side.

    She ran like she wasn't hit for about 50 yards, then stood there. Then just fell over. Dead. Interesting to watch.

    The reaction you get from a deer is NEVER predictable - and neither is bullet performance to a 100% certainty.
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    i shoot 130 grain winchester supreme ballistic tip out of my 270. makes a baseball sized exit wound. 99% the deer(meaning 50 deer with that particular load) i have ever shot with it dropped. the only deer that ran didn't go more than 10 steps.

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    I did not get good exit wounds on deer with BT's. The deer dies, except for one, but there was always some trailing involved.
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    I am shooting a 70 grain ballistic tip out of a 6ppc have gotten 4 deer with this rifle this year farthest at 225 yards all deer shot right behind shoulder all with no trailing involved. Exit wounds around 1 inch with even larger hole behind skin where bullet exits through ribs. bullet placement is key with this round though almost certain bullet would not exit if shoulders were contacted, bullet would not hold together enough to exit.

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    WetDawg is offline Formerly owned by a Chesapeake
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    Shot a couple deer with Nosler 150 gr.Ballistic Silver tips with devastating effect from a 7mm Rem Mag.

    Other posts are right on, exit wounds depend a great deal on what the bullet comes in contact with on the inside. I have also seen deer shot "clean through" with a BT in 7mag and noticed a very small exit wound.
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    Eerily similar to problem I had w/ Win supreme failsafe in the 140 grain. It was killing the deer and they were running about 30-40 yards, but no blood trail. I think the fail safe was a little too hard to open up on deer...
    I had one chest shot, bullet through heart, out gut through yam sack...
    another was a double lung broad side....not a big exit wound.
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    I am shooting Win. Sup. 140gr accubond ct's our of my 270 with mixed results. Recovered both of the bucks this season but could not find the doe The first buck was hit solid no question as I heard him clearing a 30yd. path for me to follow but he did not bleed a drop for the first 15yds at which point it looked like red highway stripes. The second buck sprayed blood all over for the first 25yds and quit bleeding for the last 10yds [img]graemlins/confused.gif[/img] The damn doe kicked and left a piled up patch of dirt and pinestraw 10ft inside of the woods but not a drop of blood I did sweeps until the flashlight dimmed and the rain started without finding a drop of blood... still feeling bad about that animal
    Like the accuracy of the BT but think I am going to look for a new bullet that leaves a bigger hole.

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    Interesting comments, Art. I was planning on switching to the 140gr fail safe next year.

    Anyone else use Win fail safes?

    For what it's worth, I've shot 2 deer with the 95 grain ballistic tip out of my .243. Both within 50 yards. One shoulder shot exited and one didn't. The one that didn't was probably within 25 yards. I found what was left of the bullet just under the skin on the opposite side of the shot.

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    I think the fail safe is made for bigger game w/ bigger bones thicker hide than deer....It will do a number on a gator...even one w/ a deer in his mouth.
    I have switched to a win soft point in the 150 gr. My gun is grouping them pretty good, but I liked the grouping w/ the failsafe better.

    I have not shot anything w/ the soft point yet.
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    Just my two-bits, but I think many of ya are overestimating the size of exit you should expect on a regular basis.

    I have shot a lot of deer with BT's and with Seirra Gameking bullets. And a fair number with factory loads. The BT's do well on all game I have shot. The Sierra's kill well, but tend to separate jacket from core, and that may result in less penetration. But, then again, BT's expand like a sumbitch too.

    There is NO way to reliably say that such and such a bullet will exit with a baseball size exit, etc.. There are waaaaay to many variables involved. To include: </font>
    • Size of the deer</font>
    • Angle THROUGH the deer (and resulting increase in needed penetration depth)</font>
    • Shot placement (Shoulder vs pure lung shot vs other)</font>
    • Distance (and resultant reduced velocity at impact)</font>
    • Animal's individual toughness (I think there are some freakin' bionic deer, and some that are a bit more fragile)</font>
    • Deer's "state of mind" - agitated? calm? An agitated deer is ALREADY cocked for a run.</font>

    Shot placement is far more important than bullet type - just make sure your bullet design is up to the task. Many are - some are NOT. Don't expect to have a deer be DRT on every well placed shot,either.

    Some deer don't start bleeding right away, especially if hit a bit high in the lungs. The lung cavity has to literally fill with blood before it really starts pumping out. This is especially evident with bow-shot deer. It doesn't take long to start, but, even if it takes three to four seconds, how much territory can that deer cover in that time? A bunch. I shot a deer with a bow years ago - hit a little high in the lungs. That deer ran 80 yards before he died, and left very little blood until the very end of the trail. How long did it take him to run that far? Maybe... 6 seconds?

    Some deer start bleeding, and then quit. The reasons for this may vary, but I've seen it a bunch on gut-shot deer... tissue or even stomach contents can actually plug the hole.

    Find a bullet design that is designed for deer that shoots well in your gun, and concentrate on shot placement. And know how to trail. You will do okay. You may still lose one to weird circumstances (no matter WHAT bullet you shoot), but that's the nature of the beast.

    The biggest mistake I see people make isn't shooting bullets too soft for deer, it's people shooting bullets too HARD. Like the guy on our club that was wondering why the deer he shot didn't die like they should, or leave much blood. I looked at his equipment and he was shooting them with 190 grain bullets (as I recall) in a 300 Winchester Magnum. Elk loads. The bullets were in and out of a 100 lb doe, and probably didn't expand much.

    But, in this discussion of Ballistic Tip bullets, I think we are "scatting at fleas".

    On a separate note - I WILL be trying some Hornady SST bullets in my 6.5mm Swedish Mauser - they have a 140 gr polymer tipped bullet that may be awesome.
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    And, yes, in my opinion, Failsafes are made for game tougher and bigger than deer.

    But an ass of deer have been killed with 'em. I personally like a softer bullet.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting " - Col. Townsend Whelen

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    That is my take, swamper...Fail safe is too hard for deer. Too bad they don't make a BTSP in the .270 WSM.
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    I shot a doe earlier in the year with a 130 gr. Winchester ballistic silvertip at about 50 yds. Exit wound was about the size of a golfball...but it did catch a rib :

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    i've been shooting 168 grn. ballistic tips now for 2 years and not one deer has left a good blood trail. i believe it's like yall are saying though that it just all depends on what it hits on the inside of the deer (bones, etc)
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