Charles Ruth might be right

[LabLuvR]

I think it's the Colonel what comes in bucket, but then again Orry county has some weird shit down thar.

[BigBrother]

Nowhere near as weird as what goes on in Cromer acres.

The sky is not falling.

The harvest limit was reduced because some know nothing legislator wanted a uniform season length and couldnt short the lowcountry.

We had a cold and wet April. Turkeys love a pine tree. I heard a dozen different birds Saturday and Sunday.

If what you're doing isnt producing birds, change what you are doing, or get up and move to another property.

[WoodieSC]

...most of us agree that there is some sort of problem, be it cyclical, weather driven, habitat loss or predator driven.. Thats exactly what should instigate a change in management plans/technique. A solid wildlife management plan should be in front of the downward curve when at all possible.

Fwiw, in the several thousand acres of pastures, woods, and swamps around me (of which I hunt about 200 acres of it), there has been very little "man-driven" habitat loss or change in the past 20 years. I can't speak to any natural plant changes other than it doesn't appear there's been anything obvious.

Over 100 coyotes have been trapped/killed off the 1000 acres next to me over the past 3 years, but prior to that we had plenty of them that could explain some of the loss of birds over two years old vs. what it used to be like.

As for the population, hopefully it's a cycle like many of the older hunters have told me. They have seen it peak and fall for the last 30 years. I hope they are right.

Its a cycle. We are on a downturn. While we need to study the decline so as not to have a deleterious effect on it, we dont need to think we have the answers "because it makes perfect sense." It is highly likely its a mixture of factors...only a few of which we can control.

I think it's great that 2th and I can finally find something we agree on. There's no doubt in my marginally edumakated brain (regarding turkey populations, et al) that we're seeing a downward cycle for numerous reasons, much like the 'normal' seven year cycle seen with Ruffed Grouse over time.

BRR, I did take what little extra time I had last month to check the creek bottoms and only found a few tracks, which matches what I've not seen or heard in the general area... i.e., very few turkeys in this immediate area that used to have a large population.

Time will tell.

[Strick9]

2th,

It was only recently that someone said Strick there isn't no way a yote can catch and kill a Tom out there in that open field. Well I knew that was wrong period but it opened my simple brain to the fact that when most guys on here have pitched a hussy bashing against what I consider common sense that I realized I had missed in my presentation.

I read back and saw my arguments of the coyote being a major problem to the EWT as allowing the not so in tune to create the vision of a clumsy non skilled dog trying to catch a full grown Tom in the open field type scenario.

I should have been way more explanatory to begin with, I had no idea a lot of people were envisioning me as saying an adult coyote catches and kills every turkey he tries on open fieldl. It truly went right over my head to break it down to the smallest facts in presentation , a fault I often pay for later.

Its obvious that a Coyote doesn't catch or kill a mature bird 100% of the time that he tries however, I am betting the ratio hovers between 5- 10% success rates. I also not only believe he is a strong factor in the population decline but also in the lack of vocalizations of both male and female Turkeys.. I can hear Mr Tom saying now " I don't want no part of that noisy woman, I am outta here before Mr Long fangs comes around" Or " Daggum I gots a Gobbling disease , every time I holler I loose my tail feathers" Better yet, " Man Old Gene just gobbled himself to death, he was just a tearing it up of there then this big brown ball grabbed him in a puff of feathers and he was off to Turkey heaven" Its called predator prey stimulus reaction and is the very reason that adapations to occur. God is a much better biologist/wildlife manager than I will ever be, end story on that.

Knowing that God didn't put a lot of dummies in Mother Nature. I can speculate that those creatures of survival can not afford to waste the time and energy so often if it something is not productive X% of times. We can easily prove that the yote gives it a try pretty regularly just from eyewitness reports and thus he must be more than x% succesfull in his attempts.

But you are correct I didn't lead with the main issues being the nesting hen and egg destruction and that allowed many to create the image in their head of the fact that no way is the dumb dog gonna catch that Tom in that open field.

I do guarantee that 100% of the time when a yote finds a brood hen upon her nest of eggs something bad for Turkey numbers is about to happen..

If you are familiar with broody chickens then you understand broody behavior, you will loose that finger nail quick like reaching in on her. Its the same with Turkeys and it would take a might big Boar Coon or Possum to cause a broody hen to retreat before death. Tractors and hay bailers get broody hens all the time , they won't back down.

[dirtnap]

Nowhere near as weird as what goes on in Cromer acres.

The sky is not falling.

The harvest limit was reduced because some know nothing legislator wanted a uniform season length and couldnt short the lowcountry.

We had a cold and wet April. Turkeys love a pine tree. I heard a dozen different birds Saturday and Sunday.

If what you're doing isnt producing birds, change what you are doing, or get up and move to another property.

I know that's right. I hear people squealing about not hearing turkeys here blah, blah, blah. Go hunt somewhere else. And if you don't have anywhere else to hunt. That's your own fault.

[LabLuvR]

I'll get clobbered again but hear goes. Since the yote has came on the scene, gobblas seem to have changed the way they respond to a call. By that I mean this. I can remember a time if I heard a gobbler chances were damn good I would kill his ass, especially mid morning. Now, I still kill some mid morning, but here is the difference. Birds that should have been killable birds now either refuse to come to a call, or they just shut the hell up. That last day of the season I had one that didn't crank up until 6:30, 15 minutes after normal time and the SOB did not fly out of the tree until ten after seven. This is in an area with a strong yote population and my "theory" is he waited and waited and waited until a hen came to him. Then and only then did he fly down.

Are yotes having a detrimental impact on turkey populations, quite possibly yes. Have they changed the way gobblas respond to a call, I sure as hell think so.

[Calibogue]

So you've never seen a gobbler before now that didn't fly down when you considered normal flydown?

Yep, what's your point?

[ccleroy]

Well, I feel like I'm in a Cromer themed twilight zone now. Thanks

[BigBrother]

I dont know a whole hell of a lot about turkeys.

What I do know, is that they do shit that leaves me scratching my head. They juke when I jive. Jive when I juke. You cant ever tell what one is going to do. When you think you have them figured out, they make you look silly. There's no "flydown time". When he wants to come out of his tree, he comes. He's seen something he doesnt like, (probably your clumsy ass), or has been showing off for a lady up there, or <insert random unfathomable reason here (mentioned above)>.

Since the limit was lowered as a concession to expanding and extending the seasons, there are 999 threads talking about the decline of the EWT in SC. A year ago, I would have bought into it. But, I left that club and went elsewhere and it broadened my thinking.

Just because they arent acting right, or doing right doesnt mean they are being predated on by coyotes. I am sure there are one or two, and yes I see a shift in behavior. But I've also almost named every hen, jake, and gobbler on several different tracts and even though I have seen coyotes...the only thing killing turkeys are me or my guests.

They respond more to human pressure than they do predator, (my observations). Let a yahoo scout by pick up for a week or two. If you even break speed, they flatten out and head for the pines. I know of one asshole who's MO is to drive really fast all over a property on his four seater, while wearing his spur necklace, get out, hit a call and give chase if one gobbles. I'm sure he kills a lot of birds, but he also sends a hell of a lot more to other strut zones.

All those roads in the WMA's and NF's. Folks wont get 100 yds off before laying into a box call. Turkeys are stupid, but they are also sharp. They will get bumped by a dog chasing a deer, move off and half an hour later, gobble all the way to the gun barrel. Fuck up and drive to where they can see you...and it's done.

We want to blame the coyotes, and I hate them too...but the problems you are having are you, the idiots on your club, in your WMA, your NF, and all those folks you took to help fill a tag last year, who are bonafied experts now.

[colej]

I feel your pain! I usually set a goal for each season and for the most part I succeed. This year didn't pan out. I called in 2 birds with one dying at the hands of my 10yr old and 1 staying just out of range of my 9 yr old. Tried taking my dad a few times with no luck. I used way to much vacation this year.

[LabLuvR]

I saw one truck pull up 200 yards from me right at daybreak. The jackasses got out crow called and then to my astonishment, started yelping on a box call. Not hearing a peep they slammed their doors getting back into the vehicle and hauled ass to the next spot. All this took less than a minute. Instead of being pissed, I could not help but laugh my ass off.

[rocketman]

I dont know a whole hell of a lot about turkeys.

What I do know, is that they do shit that leaves me scratching my head. They juke when I jive. Jive when I juke. You cant ever tell what one is going to do. When you think you have them figured out, they make you look silly. There's no "flydown time". When he wants to come out of his tree, he comes. He's seen something he doesnt like, (probably your clumsy ass), or has been showing off for a lady up there, or <insert random unfathomable reason here (mentioned above)>.

Since the limit was lowered as a concession to expanding and extending the seasons, there are 999 threads talking about the decline of the EWT in SC. A year ago, I would have bought into it. But, I left that club and went elsewhere and it broadened my thinking.

Just because they arent acting right, or doing right doesnt mean they are being predated on by coyotes. I am sure there are one or two, and yes I see a shift in behavior. But I've also almost named every hen, jake, and gobbler on several different tracts and even though I have seen coyotes...the only thing killing turkeys are me or my guests.

They respond more to human pressure than they do predator, (my observations). Let a yahoo scout by pick up for a week or two. If you even break speed, they flatten out and head for the pines. I know of one asshole who's MO is to drive really fast all over a property on his four seater, while wearing his spur necklace, get out, hit a call and give chase if one gobbles. I'm sure he kills a lot of birds, but he also sends a hell of a lot more to other strut zones.

All those roads in the WMA's and NF's. Folks wont get 100 yds off before laying into a box call. Turkeys are stupid, but they are also sharp. They will get bumped by a dog chasing a deer, move off and half an hour later, gobble all the way to the gun barrel. Fuck up and drive to where they can see you...and it's done.

We want to blame the coyotes, and I hate them too...but the problems you are having are you, the idiots on your club, in your WMA, your NF, and all those folks you took to help fill a tag last year, who are bonafied experts now.

I don't usually give "props", but on this rant, I can totally agree with.

[Calibogue]

Maybe that is the root of the problem most are seeing BB, the increase in dumbassery in the spring woods!
More fuckin' decoys, more jacklegs screaming like Courtley Love from the truck window,....you know, dumbassery in general!

[Calibogue]

I saw one truck pull up 200 yards from me right at daybreak. The jackasses got out crow called and then to my astonishment, started yelping on a box call. Not hearing a peep they slammed their doors getting back into the vehicle and hauled ass to the next spot. All this took less than a minute. Instead of being pissed, I could not help but laugh my ass off.

There's your sign!