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Thread: will the real paleo please stand up

  1. #21
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    http://nutritionfacts.org/about/

    Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
    Rule #2: Double tap

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Elaborate. From the outside looking it, putting steers on a pasture seems pretty easy. But I admit ignorance when it comes to beef production.

    School me.
    It does sound easy from the outside, but in reallity, it's not.

    Very intense pasture management(fertilizing, possible irrigation, overseeding, etc), rotational grazing(more fences and waterers, making sure cattle get moved before grass becomes too grazed), moving cattle from pasture to pasture without them getting too excited(and burning what you just put on them).

    Most people that I've seen/read about try to have their grazing mapped out real precisely, like down to a few hours. The cattle have to be constantly grazing and as soon as the grass becomes a little un-palatable, they need to be moved to fresher grass ASAP.

    Getting beef to "market fat" is a lot harder on grass than it is on corn and takes a good bit longer.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    and yall know I am just messing with glenn on the age thing, but I DO think today's meat is different enough than the paleolithic meat that it bears discussion.
    I agree. It's been bred to be different for hundreds of years. From palatability, to ease of fattening, to amount of fat. I don't think that there is any arguing that beef(even grass fed) isn't as good for you as an elk or deer that you went out and killed yourself. I just don't think that it's near as un-good for you as most people want you to believe.
    Man and other animals were first vegetarians; then Noah and his sons were given permission to eat meat: “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you” Genesis 9:3

    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobetter View Post
    I think there is a huge misunderstanding in the general public about hormones and antibiotics and food animals.


    I believe the vast majority of folks on the street will tell you that food animals are fed hormones and antibiotics ad libitum.

    At one point, I was the night manager of a commercial poultry feed mill. One of the maintenance folks was holding forth one night about the hormones fed to chickens. I asked him to point out the part in our process where we added hormones to the feed. He had no answer. He couldn't answer it because there aren't any hormones added to feed. But, because he had "heard somewhere" about hormones he was convinced they had to be in the feed... And he worked at a feed mill.

    It's hard for some folks to get over preconceived notions about the food animal industry. There is a ton of conflicting information available at the click of a mouse. I'm not going to tell you what to believe about the health issues associated with consuming store bought meat. I would just ask that you research both sides of the issue.

    I understand and I will admit I am not educated on this topic. I'm coming from the same stance that 2th is that the meat we consume today is different than that of the past.

    I don't care if meat is organic or not, I try my best to buy from somebody local that has a small operation. I just think it tastes better, and I know where my money is going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobetter View Post
    http://nutritionfacts.org/about/

    Dr. Greger is a physician, author, and internationally recognized speaker on nutrition, food safety, and public health issues. A founding member of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine, Dr. Greger is licensed as a general practitioner specializing in clinical nutrition. Currently he serves as the public health director at the Humane Society of the United States. Dr. Greger is a graduate of the Cornell University School of Agriculture and the Tufts University School of Medicine.
    That shouldn't raise a red flag to anyone...
    Man and other animals were first vegetarians; then Noah and his sons were given permission to eat meat: “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you” Genesis 9:3

    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
    It does sound easy from the outside, but in reallity, it's not.

    Very intense pasture management(fertilizing, possible irrigation, overseeding, etc), rotational grazing(more fences and waterers, making sure cattle get moved before grass becomes too grazed), moving cattle from pasture to pasture without them getting too excited(and burning what you just put on them).

    Most people that I've seen/read about try to have their grazing mapped out real precisely, like down to a few hours. The cattle have to be constantly grazing and as soon as the grass becomes a little un-palatable, they need to be moved to fresher grass ASAP.

    Getting beef to "market fat" is a lot harder on grass than it is on corn and takes a good bit longer.
    Makes sense and I understand the rotation to prevent over grazing. I guess it all depends on the region of the country and how that areas cow/calf unit breaks down.

    But it would seem that once the animal reaches market weight, you ship to sale since I would think you would reach a point of diminishing returns after a while. Hell otherwise you could feed 'em for 5 years and still hot have 'em "fat"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    But it would seem that once the animal reaches market weight, you ship to sale since I would think you would reach a point of diminishing returns after a while. Hell otherwise you could feed 'em for 5 years and still hot have 'em "fat"
    They do. They don't hold them any longer than they have to for the exact reason you mentioned. Not too mention, they can charge a little more since it's a niche market and people will pay for it.
    Man and other animals were first vegetarians; then Noah and his sons were given permission to eat meat: “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you” Genesis 9:3

    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold

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    Quote Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
    They do. They don't hold them any longer than they have to for the exact reason you mentioned. Not too mention, they can charge a little more since it's a niche market and people will pay for it.
    Bingo!

    Stupid hipsters

  8. #28
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    I'll say that I think grass finished beef tastes better, but that's just me. I don't buy it because I'm cheap.
    Man and other animals were first vegetarians; then Noah and his sons were given permission to eat meat: “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you” Genesis 9:3

    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Makes sense and I understand the rotation to prevent over grazing. I guess it all depends on the region of the country and how that areas cow/calf unit breaks down.

    But it would seem that once the animal reaches market weight, you ship to sale since I would think you would reach a point of diminishing returns after a while. Hell otherwise you could feed 'em for 5 years and still hot have 'em "fat"
    It is very intensive on your capital (think land and money, as in carrying cost and interest). It takes anywhere from 36 to 48 months to take a bovine to a marketable carcass when only run on grass. Maybe we have bred some of this trait into them, maybe not, that is for someone else to argue. It takes a shitload of grass to fatten one up to where it will grade. The other big problem (from a cattle producers view) is when you deal in the grass fed industry, your highest export markets end up denying your product because it wasn't killed before 20mo. The Asians pay out the nose for beef and we are sending a lot of it over there; they are partly to thank for current beef prices, coupled with cheap feed and lacking supply.
    cut\'em

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    Makes sense. Feed lots get 'em there quicker. I was figuring transport, facilities and feed would offset the cost to make it about even.

    Shows what I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southernduck View Post
    The other big problem (from a cattle producers view) is when you deal in the grass fed industry, your highest export markets end up denying your product because it wasn't killed before 20mo. The Asians pay out the nose for beef and we are sending a lot of it over there; they are partly to thank for current beef prices, coupled with cheap feed and lacking supply.
    Learn something new every day. I didn't know that.
    Man and other animals were first vegetarians; then Noah and his sons were given permission to eat meat: “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you” Genesis 9:3

    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold

  12. #32
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    Asians pay more for foot pad chicken meat than tenderloin.
    I know this isn't related but I like talking about Asians.

  13. #33
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    "Flucuations"

    "Fluck you white guys too"
    Man and other animals were first vegetarians; then Noah and his sons were given permission to eat meat: “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you” Genesis 9:3

    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
    Learn something new every day. I didn't know that.
    They also buy the shit that we dont care for. I think the Asian export market makes up like $350 in each animal.
    cut\'em

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    Makes sense. Feed lots get 'em there quicker. I was figuring transport, facilities and feed would offset the cost to make it about even.

    Shows what I know.
    It is not a perfect system, but considering the task at hand it is a good one. Think about how few people feed so many people. Its all about efficiency, whether it is feed conversions, transport, planting, harvesting, etc. And just because it is efficient doesn't mean the care is not there.
    cut\'em

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    I'll bet Asians would eat the tongue out of the deer they killed...

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    i keep giggling over "marketable carcass." that just sounds so cool. Beef lingo is rad.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    i keep giggling over "marketable carcass." that just sounds so cool. Beef lingo is rad.
    Almost as cool as dentite lingo.
    cut\'em

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    From a biochemical and nutritional stand point, you need protein. You need fats; animal fats. And you need cholesterol. Your brain cannot function without it. The system that is our body was designed to run on meat and fat and some carbs. Take away the grocery stores and the readily available access to non seasonal fruits and vegetables. If you broke your diet down to only eating what was seasonally available you would basically starve to death in the winter and early spring by following a vegan diet. Shit just ain't natural. In order to survive you will have to have a diet that consist of mostly protein and fats from animals. I'm certainly not suggesting you toss out your refrigerator and go all completely native. But our species survived and thrived on a seasonal diet of plants and a year round diet of meat and animal based fats.
    You could have just told him that no one cares what he eats and saved the bandwidth. .
    Last edited by Fish; 10-01-2014 at 11:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
    That's terrible.

    The ONLY meat that has hormones added to it is beef. And the difference in the amounts in "hormone free" and implanted beef are measured in single NANOGRAMS. NANO... Not too mention, it's a naturally occuring hormone being used the vast majority of the time. If you eat cabbage, you have no reason to worry about the amount of estrogen added to your beef. There's LITERALLY over 400 times more estrogen in cabbage than beef. Is your girl friend/wife/daughter on birth control? If so, I'd be more worried about the amount of extra estrogen added to her body through birth control that from eating beef.

    Glenn, the reason that grass-fed is more costly is because of the amount of labor it takes to finish beef on grass. It's very, very labor intensive.

    Correct me if I am wrong...but isn't cabbage a vegetable?

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