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Thread: The Skinny on Fat

  1. #1
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    Default The Skinny on Fat


  2. #2
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    Holy cow.....

    nutrition policy has been derailed over the past half-century by a mixture of personal ambition, bad science, politics and bias.

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    Steak is GREAT!
    The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly.
    Theodore Roosevelt

    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

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    My wife and I were just talking about this a few days ago. And this is what I really worry about.
    The sad irony is that women have been especially rigorous about ramping up on their fruits, vegetables and grains, but they now suffer from higher obesity rates than men, and their death rates from heart disease have reached parity.
    Last edited by quackaddict; 05-06-2014 at 09:24 AM.
    Man and other animals were first vegetarians; then Noah and his sons were given permission to eat meat: “every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you” Genesis 9:3

    "A man may not care for golf and still be human, but the man who does not like to see, hunt, photograph or otherwise outwit birds or animals is hardly normal. He is supercivilized, and I for one do not know how to deal with him." Aldo Leopold

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    Good post. Those forks over knives types will not be happy.
    Last edited by 803; 05-06-2014 at 10:18 AM.
    "Blessed is the man... who makes one word grow where two grew before" - Havilah Babcock

    You might as well learn that a man who catches fish or shoots game has got to make it fit to eat before he sleeps. Otherwise it’s all a waste and a sin to take it if you can’t use it.” - Robert Ruark

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    Whoever thought I would see the WSJ as a beacon of light in this diet fad crazy world???
    I'm going to heaven for the weather and hell for the company.

    Be dangerous, unpredictable, and make a whole lot of noise.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by quackaddict View Post
    My wife and I were just talking about this a few days ago. And this is what I really worry about.
    I'm headed home to tell my wife to maintain weight an help live a healthy life she has to eat more "Meat"!
    The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly.
    Theodore Roosevelt

    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

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    The low fat whole grain movement has made us sicker and pharm companies bigger. Make sure you ditch the "heart healthy" vegetable oils too.

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    there you go badmouthing whole grains again.....
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  10. #10
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    Ho grains are da debil yo

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    You mean that you cant take a pill to get skinny?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    there you go badmouthing whole grains again.....
    It's been a while since I rattled your cage. Makin' sure you was payin' attention.

  13. #13
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    I am gonna blow this thread outta the water when I get a chance....

    bad data and some horribly incorrect information in here.

    ALL CARBS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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    3 Guys took a deer hunting trip.....one guy could tie his boots and breath at the same time, one guy argued about whole grains, and two guys killed deer.......the end.
    Founding Member of the Short Mo' Sea Pro Posse

    Fuck Purdue

  15. #15
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    ha

    this is about health and making sure the idiots on scducks aren't taken down the wrong path.....

    even the WSJ can make mistakes. Wait for it...
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2thDoc View Post
    bad data and some horribly incorrect information in here.
    All data you need is right in front of you. So let's look at it.

    Beer is widely, frequently, and in volume, consumed by many here on SCDucks. Anyone who drinks more than a couple a day WILL HAVE A BEER GUT, that hangs over their belt.

    Some of these guys will also eat a lot of other carbs like buns on cheese burgers, rice in a chicken bog, dumplings in chicken and dumplings, you know, part of the "all American", "moderate" diet. MOST (not all) of these guys will have an ever BIGGER gut that hangs FURTHER over their belt. These guys will have plenty of fat around their lower backs, and maybe even a case of the bitch tits. The NOT ALL guys are the tall lean sort that never seem to get fat. Maybe a little gut, but never obese, and never really heavily muscled either. But these guys are still rolling the dice, and every single one of these "bread eaters" will have a higher incidence of cardiovascular disease, diabetes (type II & III (Alzheimer's)), etc, etc . All of the diseases that make the "Western Diseases" list follow the "Western Diet" without fail and depending on your genetic makeup, one or more of these diseases will find you sooner rather than later if you eat the Western Diet.

    We also know, for a fact, that a pure ketogenic or paloe diet will lean you right down to the muscle. And in the process, this leaning includes reducing fat deposits in arteries, global inflammation, and your pancreas can rest. If this diet is propped up with adequate protein and exercise, a person will be become leaner and more muscular. For the benefit of the academics on board here, that means healthy.

    Can a person eat bread and bad carbs and not get fat or sick? Sure. IF that person exercises enough to burn off the carb calories that will otherwise store on their abdomen, in their arteries, and proliferate ameloid beta particles (read here plaque - Alzheimer's) and IF that person has a genetic predisposition to handle glutens and glucose without becoming insulin resistant or developing metabolic syndrome.

    IF

    We can simplify this to the following rule of thumb. If the pancreas is worked hard for a prolonged period, decades, poor health becomes more and more likely. Carbohydrates will literally deform your body inside and out.

    This is where the good ol' "everything on moderation" seems to find its malingering way into every single conversation about diet on this board. But here's the rub. Since when does moderation come into play?
    Last edited by Fish; 05-12-2014 at 08:17 AM.

  17. #17
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    OK. I'll play. Try to stay with me, Fish, since I'm kind of in the mood to burst the fuck out of your little bubble. You Paleo people push the "meat" thing a bit far (twss) and might want to learn moderation. You talk about the beer drinkers on this forum? Well, they are the SAME PEOPLE buying bacon by the truckload because they read on here that its "healthy." NEWSFLASH: BACON IS NOT HEALTHY because of the fats and nitrites (proven to cause cancer). We can discuss the merits of nitrite free bacon if you want to keep playing. You, like many others in this forum, have come to some sort of conclusion that all carbs are created equal. THEY AREN'T and if you stay with me, you might learn something.

    BUT let's start with this WSJ article and its findings. Here is a quote from heart.org and their concern with this study:
    "But the meta-analysis has already been questioned. In an email exchange with heartwire , Dr Eric B Rimm (Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA) said, "My colleagues were quite surprised at the findings. We uncovered a serious mistake in their review of PUFA that likely will change the results substantially." And the parts of the meta-analysis focusing on PUFA didn't summarize the relevant studies correctly, according to Rimm, who added that "the results are in serious question."

    Moreover, the group's conclusion about saturated fat "has little context, because it likely represents the result of when you exchange saturated fat in your diet for refined grain. Thus, saturated fat is no better or worse than eating white bread. We have known that for decades, so [it] is not new."

    Rimm said he and his colleagues have contacted the report's authors about their issues with the analysis.

    Also contacted by heartwire , Dr Alice H Lichtenstein (Tufts University, Boston, MA) replied by email, "The majority of the evidence suggests that replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat reduces heart disease risk, whereas replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate does not. This new study only assessed one factor, an indicator of dietary fat, and not the whole picture, making the conclusions questionable."
    Now, follow along as we talk carbs.

    REFINED carbs are bad. They lead to insulin spikes and that leads to weight gain. LOOKY THERE! WE AGREE. Now, pay attention because this is where we differ. Dr Di Angelitino (sp?) said:
    "The real surprise is that, according to the best science to date, people put themselves at higher risk for these conditions no matter what kind of carbohydrates they eat. Yes, even unrefined carbs. Too much whole-grain oatmeal for breakfast and whole-grain pasta for dinner, with fruit snacks in between, add up to a less healthy diet than one of eggs and bacon, followed by fish. The reality is that fat doesn't make you fat or diabetic. Scientific investigations going back to the 1950s suggest that actually, carbs do."
    She is wrong. Period. End of discussion. This will come out soon when the WSJ retracts the article. The quote above is misleading. What do you think of when you think of oatmeal? Quaker package? of course....but the TONS of sugas, not to mention the sodium, make that a BAD choice for breakfast....but is it the OAT? I am here to prove its NOT the oat. Paleo people tend to compare their eggs and bacon to things that are mostly REFINED carbs. IF you want to make a healthy choice for breakfast, pick a steel cut oat sweetened with the natural sugars from fruit before you pick eggs and bacon. YES, this is a simple truth. I cant wait for this one line to be highlighted and picked apart. I am ready.

    here are your breakfast choices IN ORDER OF MOST TO LEAST HEALTHY. I think its important to pick from as high up on the list as you can and still be happy.

    Quinoa or other unrefined grain
    Steel cut oats with fruit
    Nitrite free bacon and free range eggs (More good FAs in there)
    the eggs and bacon you people are eating
    sugar sweetened oatmeal from quaker
    dunkin donuts latte and a donut


    OK. Make your pick.


    and here's the kicker. just talking plain science and all the studies done on disease progression:
    A vegan diet, interestingly, is 80% complex carbs (10% fat and 10% protein). The ONLY studies that have ever been shown to cause disease regression (not prevention, but actually regression) used a whole foods, plant based diet and they are 80% carbs. Anyone that says that all carbs are bad is just plain ignoring the data.

    so...what's my point? well, honestly Glenn and I have discussed this before and I just like to "moderate" the layman's opinion of diet before they get too far into it. The key (IMHO and those NOT in the paleo camp but still very concerned with overall health) is to eat a mostly PLANT based diet. Avoid sugars unless they are naturally occurring in the fruit. Make meat the SIDE item on your plate (think 8oz ribeye vs 16oz porterhouse). Eat whole grains BUT MAKE SURE THEY ARE TRULY WHOLE. (remember, wheat pasta is better than white pasta but its still mostly refined grain. Same for wheat bread as its 2/3 white flour). I dont think you have to be perfect to live a long, healthy, happy life. You just have to be close. I am urging you all to look at your diet. Quite simply, get rid of sodas and desserts and I bet many of you are there, but loading up on eggs and bacon is not the answer.

    One wonderful thing about the paleo lifestyle is the inclusion of crossfit. Exercise is key. I just wont people to look at ALL dietary options and stop thinking that eating meat all day will make you "healthy" because that is documented NOT to be the case.

    I'm sure I didnt sway the most stringent Paleo people but this article from the WSJ has been ripped to shreds by many in the medical community.
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

  18. #18
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    So you think my lunch of two meat balls in a homemade paleo red sauce, with peppers, onions, mushrooms, garlic and tomatoes over half a spaghetti squash is a primary meat based meal? Quote me to where I have EVER said just eat meat and no carbs? I dare ya to find it.

    We survived as a species on proteins and a seasonal plant based diet. Which meant fruit wasn't always available. Neither were vegetables, fungi, tubers, nuts etc. We survived by fattening up in the spring and summers when they were available and then subsisting on primarily available proteins and burning stored body fat and animal fat for energy during those lean times. We were designed to burn fat as fuel. Period.

    You can eat what you want. I really don't care. But you nor anyone else has convinced me that I NEED to eat grains. I do, have and will get along just fine without 'em.

  19. #19
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    I'm in complete agreement with Toofer. Damn I must be sick! I know a guy that ate a lb. a bacon a day. He had TWO heart attacks, ya reckon all that bacon may have played a role? Ya ever heard of anyone dying from eating too many mashed taters or too much wheat bread? There ya go!

    Seriously, it's all in moderation. My biggest problem is I love sweets, starches and meats. I know I don't eat enough vegetable and fruit, but I do try to recognize that and do so a few times a week.
    RIP Kelsey "Bigdawg" Cromer
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    If love could have saved you, you would have lived forever.

    Missing you my great friend.


  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn View Post
    So you think my lunch of two meat balls in a homemade paleo red sauce, with peppers, onions, mushrooms, garlic and tomatoes over half a spaghetti squash is a primary meat based meal? Quote me to where I have EVER said just eat meat and no carbs? I dare ya to find it.

    We survived as a species on proteins and a seasonal plant based diet. Which meant fruit wasn't always available. Neither were vegetables, fungi, tubers, nuts etc. We survived by fattening up in the spring and summers when they were available and then subsisting on primarily available proteins and burning stored body fat and animal fat for energy during those lean times. We were designed to burn fat as fuel. Period.

    You can eat what you want. I really don't care. But you nor anyone else has convinced me that I NEED to eat grains. I do, have and will get along just fine without 'em.
    whoa now. I think that lunch is wonderful. It has a lot of carbs in it. You know that, right?

    I just worry about people coming into a forum like this and only hitting the highlights and thinking eating all meat is the new "lifestyle" of choice. I think thats an incorrect assumption. Your lunch is healthy but you dont NEED the meat in it to make it so....

    I agree with you that grains are NOT a necessary dietary ingredient but its also proven that truly unrefined grains do NOT cause the insulin spikes and therefore CAN be included in a healthy diet. That's all I'm saying....
    Ugh. Stupid people piss me off.

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