Explain QDM

[tradorion]

OK- I will start this off myself by telling you to go ahead and grab a beer, get your peanuts, popcorn and cotton candy... but it is a serious question.

Why is it that everyone who buys into the QDM mentality automatically thinks they have the great gift for the whole of the deer hunting public?

I readily buy in to doe harvest- I truly believe that SC's herd is way to skewed a ratio... but having said that- who appointed a select group of people to bust my chops over what i shoot or cheer themselves on over what they shoot?

A large portion of hunting is luck- even when skill plays in there are still a number of other factors involved... granted managing ups the number of bigger deer on your place but the biggest one can easily get hit by a truck or cross a property line and get bagged by a neighbor...

I just watched a "hunt" on the Outdoor Channel... the guy killed a BIG, MANAGED buck. But he never hunted for shit. He went to a heated shooting house, accompanied by a guide to tell him what deer was in his price range, sat awhile and shot a target with hair and horns... point being- many killers of smaller deer are MUCH BETTER HUNTERS than the fellow hunting managed land.

Now- if you manage your property and big deer come of this management and you scout and score one- yeah! I am happy for you. And if you do not manage and score a buck that makes you happy- yeah to you too...

but where do many of you get off telling me what should make me happy in my deer kill, what a "good" deer is, that i am a lesser hunter if i do not meet your standard, or many of the other issues that seem to attach themselves to QDM.

As noted- this is a serious question- so someone explain to me why their religion of QDM trumps my religion of Deer Hunting for Fun and please- be detailed.

T

[Sasha and Abby]

I firmly believe that QDM can be done on as little as 200 acres... and 4 of my SC. "book" deer are proof. Don't believe it... how many times have you heard about someone killing a monster off a small property that had not been hunted in a while - the buck was allowed to grow up. It all depends on what the objectives of the property.

If you want to shoot a large buck, it will take sacrifice (read; passing 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer). You must raise a large buck to shoot a large buck. You cannot shoot what does not exist.

There are plenty of does to shoot. What are you going to do with a basket rack??? If you are new to hunting... yeah, shoot a young buck. After you have taken a truckload of these, don't you want to challenge yourself a little... Bowhunters get a little leeway.

I absolutely love to watch them. Deer of any size and any flavor. I still get just as excited with a big doe as a big buck... well, almost as excited.

quote from tradorian...
but where do many of you get off telling me what should make me happy in my deer kill, what a "good" deer is, that i am a lesser hunter if i do not meet your standard, or many of the other issues that seem to attach themselves to QDM.

In addressing this, I imagine that you would be more excited with a large buck than a small one. If so, you might pass on some smaller ones to let them graduate into an older age class.

SC has the potential for some nice deer. The problem is, that almost all bucks never reach 2.5 years of age before they are shot. You wonder why you never see many big bucks; they were shot when they were little.

[KRT]

Look at Mississippi before and after goverment mandated QDM. The proof is in the books!

I see both sides of the arguement but one things for sure...... You will never kill a grown one unless he reaches maturity

[tradorion]

Again- I do not argue that deer must have some age to have a decent rack... I do get annoyed over the whole idea of someone (based on commercially driven trophy BS) pushing what i can and cannot shoot or what i want to kill...

As for the big buck/small property theory- in my opinion that is much more about pressure than management- he went to the lesser hunted property to get away from pressure elsewhere- happens all the time as you noted- then you get permission to go there and BAM! you get him...

as for what i would do with a 4 pt rack- the same thing i do with a does 4 legs- throw them away- and eat the rest... there is nothing (other than "book entry" or selling it out on commercials) that can be done with a 12 pt rack that can't also be done with a 6 pt rack... except hang a few more hats...

yes I am tickled to kill a nice buck- but i do not hunt for horns- i hunt for relaxation, peace, meat, and my own brand of religion (treestand= my favorite church).

as for the maturation process- i argue some aspect of it's validity... your given version the guy "tops out" in trophy stage... but if he does- he has hung up somewhere along the route... I would say that i am fully matured as a deer hunter and will never be one of those who obsesses about the biggest buck in the woods- it is about the hunt, not the rack in my opinion... which does not say that folks can't rack hunt if they choose... but don't shove it down everyone else's throat...


T

[KRT]

Trad you hunt for meat??? [img]graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I believe you can get a whole lot more meat off a 210lb 8 point than a 125lb 4 point [img]graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

or

Shoot the does!!!!!!

[xpress]

You would get alot more meat KRT but that 125lb 4 point would taste better. I strickly bow hunt WMA land so QDM is not a option is you want meat. Although I have shot several nice bucks I have also shot my share of small bucks and several does. It's weird though that I have killed my biggest buck last year on a freinds 200acre lease they strickly meat hunt first come first serve, have been doing it that way for 40+ years. I go there first sit first deer out a 18 point 19" spread 169lbs that is a nice deer for a non QDM 200acre lease. The nice thing is they got a trail camera after I killed that one and one of the first pictures is one just like him but a typical 12 massive. They must be doing something right out there. Good luck with the debate if you want a challenge hunt WMA land with a bow it will test your skills.

[deadriver]

Trad, you and I are usually on the same page, but seem a little diffused on this one.

QDM is a broad sweeping catch phrase wielded more in ignorence than understandig. It has become socially driven and gotten away from its biological foundations.

Huniting is an individual experience and no one should value your experience for you. However, biological foundations should be encouraged or enforced through regulations. You agree that the doe herd needs to be managed, and that is what i think SC needs to work on pretty aggressively with CWE now East of the Miss. Limiting buck harvest is a solid answer to that problem. I like the way some states are doing, check in a certain number of does to get a buck tag. Then, fill that tag how ever you want, when you want. That encourages doe harvest and active participation in management of the herd by all hunters, which is our responsibility any ways. But this is not the ideas behing QDM.

Practice your religion, the tress stand one, and pass on the tradition of hunting. My values on my place are not forced on you on your place.

There is alot to be said for obtaining the herds that are desired by QDM. They have a more natural balance, encourage natural selection, and encourage a healthier herd overall. I would not manage a fish pond for one age of fish, or try to shoot all of my Jakes each year either. It is counter intuitive that young populations can obtain balance in the sytem. The irony is, that all the guys that say they don't care about trophys and then shoot young bucks, only care about the trophy of a buck, all be it young. If you don't care about trophies, then shoot does, no one stretches them as trophies. So, in reality, both cases (young and mature bucks), are dominated by the decision to shoot bucks over does.

So, I say both attitudes are skewed. QDM has become buck management, and the take it all guys want to shoot all bucks. How about making decisions to manage the herd to a near natural state, whic is wher the herd is most likely to survive disease and disaster. That is why white tail have been here since shortly after the last ice age. CWD is a real threat. If we don't get our heads out of asses, our children may have no deer to hunt.
We have developed the same attitude as early americans. We can't even imagine that the deer could ever be whiped out. Well, they can. Any species can, if faces with the wrong set of circumstances. If man is to manipulate the balance of populations of species all over the world, then man must try to manage those populations close to their natural occurrences.

For now, QDM comes closer to that than the free for all we have had for 40 years in this state.

There it is, ya'll tear it apart. My views ar neither social nor political, they are biological. I have learned, that is not well recieved by the masses.

[tradorion]

KRT- and if i can kill 4 100lb does and 2 140lb 4pts while waiting on that 210lb 8pt and they ALL taste better than the older buck... then what??

Xpress- all i doo is bowhunt- and a decent amount of it is on public land- which is where my comment about many small deer killers being MUCH BETTER HUNTERS than many QDM proponents came from- give me a fellow who can consistently kill deer on a WMA and he'd be hell on wheels in a hunting contest on a QDM property vs. the "sit in a tree house" guy...

DR- nah- we aren't too far apart- and you are very right in the basis for my aggravation being that QDM has become less about herd management than it is about "big bucks"... I'd love to see SC get rid of the dumb ass unlimited buck harvest and got to something like 5 does to earn a buck tag and no more than 3 bucks a year regardless... but that is about the biology of skewed ratios rather than a grow big bucks theory- big bucks might come of it- but they'd be the bonus of a healthier herd. But even under that system- i'd say that you kill whatever buck you want to kill with your tag, not what someone else tells you is good for you.

Keep it up boys...

R

[Sasha and Abby]

Good post Deadriver

[KRT]

T..... no one is telling you what to shoot on your land ESPECIALLY slingin arrows. I just never buy the "meat" hunter excuse

[mirroman]

Trad check out "Another QDM post" that I brought ttt. I'm not sure if you saw this or not...

[Sasha and Abby]

Originally posted by KRT:
I just never buy the "meat" hunter excuse

That is the truth... what an excuse
[img]graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[ZKILLR]

I kill several deer every year.. personally i dont care if they have a big rack or not,but i dont shoot deer that are small in weight. I like for them to weigh 100 pounds or more.I do QDM but its quanity deer management..The deer I kill goes to feed all my siblings.. "I AM A MEAT HUNTER" either i eat them or they eat all my crops and i wont have any money to buy food. Doesnt matter if they are 120 4pt or 175 8pt they all eat the same.

[CPiper]

I am a proponent of and for QDM and practice it and believe in it. It is a great "tool" to educate yourself about deer and deer hunting. There are MANY positives in how QDM realates to the wildlife and habitat.
BUT, there are some negatives also. It does tend to help drive lease costs up, provides a platform for us hunters to debate and argue.... and as tradorion pointed out, it has some folks looking down their noses at another hunter.
Hunters have to be wise enough to "chew the hay and spit out the stubble". Use what you can and forget the rest?? The QDMA magazine is one of THE BEST deer publications ever, period!! Even if you are a "meat hunter" you'd do well to read and learn, because it WILL help you put more deer on the table and even a better quality meat! We hunters are SO closed and narrow minded, LOL!!

As I have said so many times before ..... dont shove QDM down anyones throat. As long as the person was safe and legal, get over it.
There are umpteen things more important for deer hunting then QDM; for example, adding to our rank and file. Id rather add 100 youths and 100 females to our rank and file each year then have SC cranking out 300 B&C bucks per season!!!

I view each hunt and kill as a QUALITY experience! I have had a rough life and have become so thankful and grateful for small simple things!! And if that small simple thing turns out to be a 120lb 6" 3pnt that I killed in a safe and legal manner and was joined by family and friends, I will bow my knee to the one who Created the deer and me and say Thanks! Thanks for giving me the capacity in body, mind and soul to engage in the hunt!!

Focus on the MAIN thing! And the MAIN thing is NOT B&C, P&Y or QDM.

As far as the "meat hunter" excuse: I grew up in S. Alabama, in an area simply LOADED with deer. The fellas I hunted with were some of THE BEST hunters, woodsman, poachers & outlaws I have ever met. We had 16k acres and only 20 members and son we killed deer ... 100's of em. We shot doe deer, button bucks, big bucks, small bucks, fawns, yearlings .... deer .... typical brown/down syndrome. And why? Forget the fact that we NEEDED to but it was for meat!! Plain and simple, MEAT. These guys would discard a 130" rack into the gut pit, but would kick your butt over a front shoulder.
Even now, I dont turn a piece of deer meat down. I take as many as my freezers will hold! And we eat it. My kids and I have ate over 800lbs of deer meat in less then 1 year. SO, I for one can see the reasoning behind "Im a meat hunter". Been there and done it!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[jhblitch1332]

The wise man has spoken again..... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Nice post CPiper!

[CPiper]

Thank ya Sir.

Check this out: Her 1st deer, her 1st buck ....

This young lady used to live here in SC, hunted in SC, and never did shoot a deer. She moved to Michigan and got this 135lb dressed out 4pnt on 11-17-04.

Now tell me .... what about this sitcheashun is NOT a QDM moment??

[Sasha and Abby]

She is waaaay to pretty to be deer hunting... looks more like an ad for Cabelas...

[KRT]

Bwaaahahahaha

[CPiper]

http://www.dnr.state.sc.us/cgi-bin/u...c;f=1;t=003112

[tradorion]

Read some of the other QDM thread... and again it seems to me that most of the QDM proponents are "big buck" driven more so than "herd management"... the middle ground being- do the kill X number of does to earn a buck tag- but do not tell me what buck may be harvest... then it works for most every one.

R