Force fetching

[mudminnow]

i don't mean punishment in a bad way. For positive punishment i mean the application of an unwanted pressure until the desired behavior is achieved which is the basis of force fetching i believe. correct me if i am wrong. I think we are just getting into word semantics now. Maybe i can "force take out the trash" my dog that would be nice. I know he wont do that for treats

[white quacker]

One reinforces commands through pressure, which can present itself in many different ways and not necessary in the physical form. Pressure is taught using different training tools, slip lead, heeling stick, e-collar, etc. Force fetch teaches a dog to handle or turn off pressure.

Let me speak on this as if I know what I speak of (if that confused you, then just stop reading here). The ear pinch, toe hitch, and collar, in the form of collar fetch, are the vehicles in which one uses to teach a dog to handle pressure, which the whole act is most commonly known as force fetch or old school "force breaking". The act of force fetching teaches a dog good, clean mouth manners, but that is not the point of force fetching, the point is to teach a dog to handle pressure. By complying to the command of fetch, the pressure is turned off. The dog is then praised when holding the bumper or object being used at the time, for his compliance of the command. As with anything, stories are told and BS is spewed over time which gives force fetch a bad name. "BO I used a pair of cinderblocks with nails in them to pinch his ear and he was holding a roll of barbed wire, did I mention he is a SC state champ duck dog?"

Force fetching, WHEN DONE RIGHT, produces a dog that has established good mouth manners and knows how to handle/turn off pressure.

[Truckman]

Someone can learn from that.^^^^^

[SouthBryanLabs]

My wife used that brick with nails thing on me and it did not work one bit. I just could not figure out how to turn of the pressure.

[birdboy]

Holy crap! I leave you all alone for one day and I come back to THIS?!? Let's compromise shall we... I use a clicker, it's made by Tri-Tronics. I use positive reinforcement to force fetch, it's called me not jerking this rope tied around your toes. Let's face the facts, when humpty dumpty dog eases across the field to pick up a bird and he looks up and sees another one fall, more than likely he is going to leave your bird to pick up the "fun flying" bird. You have no tool in your tool box to make him pick it up. So forgive me if I don't believe you killed a double banded pintail from Japan and a malard with an old money band, but the only reason you don't have proof is your dog wouldn't pick them up. Put any dog in the right situation and they will do the wrong thing, they are dogs. The key is to have the tools to make them do right.

[mudminnow]

Good compromise,
I would recommend anybody to read the book "dont shoot the dog" by karen pryor for a better understanding of their and other training methods. I still feel that people have this idea that positive reinforcement is just praising your dog and giving him treats for everything. It is much more than that and i feel that praise is worthless and treats are at a much lower reward that the ultimate reward for a retriever...a retrieve. Manipulating this reward to shape the reward is a pretty powerful tool. The end goal is to train a retriever that retrieves and follows a certain command because in his mind that is the only thing that pays.
Milner has a book coming out in the next year and if it is any good i will offer to buy a copy for a few folks if you want just to have an idea what folks mean by positive retriever training. If nothing else you can read a page before you use it as toilet paper or just go ahead and use it as toilet paper.

[birdboy]

Last word

[FEETDOWN]

Word

[Tha Dick]

Heck I'm still waitin fo whitehonkiekwaker to apologize for using my name in vane.....

Oh yeah, WORD.

[xtremamax]

if u dont FF how do i get the pics of my dogs holding ducks?Especially ones with bans. (for u feetdown)

[birdboy]

Dang y'all stop it. Y'all know I'm a little OCD about some things. Now, last word

[FEETDOWN]

What max said. Having a dog that can't strike a good pose ain't worth a shit.

Word

[Birddawg]

He bought those bands on eBay.

[white quacker]

Heck I'm still waitin fo whitehonkiekwaker to apologize for using my name in vane.....

Oh yeah, WORD.

Mine is two words.... whiny Dick

[birdboy]

Word!

[cudexter]

word

[Birddawg]

Run along poodle boy.

[Truckman]

Word

[MsCedarSwampRetrievers]

Damn...didn't realize that us getting excited and praising our dogs for retrieving a duck wasn't considered positive reinforcement or that we never use it. Geez...now I gotta stop saying "good" while I'm teaching hold??? Guess I have to stop saying "good dog" when it does something right, too???

Guess I have to find a new word...

[FEETDOWN]

Good point Alison.

I do want to thank mudminnow for the offer on buying a few copies of milners book for us heathens to read, but just buy me some charmin. It'll be used for the same purpose as the book, but is a lot softer than those pages I'm sure.