Force fetching

[pee dee]

Is force fetching a must? Are there any top trainers that don't do it? Learn me

[803]

It sure makes it easier...

[FEETDOWN]

IMO it is. Depends on the goals you have for your dog. What are your expectations?

[pee dee]

To be the best..I Plan on going as far in hunt tests as our potential allows. I will be the limiting agent I do believe. He is doing really good marking 3-4 and delivering to hand. The next step from what I have been told is force fetching before we both learn blind retrieves. I have watched videos and clips on you tube about the force fetching. I just want to make sure I know as much as possible about it so I don't cause problems I have to fix later.

[FEETDOWN]

In that case, the best advice I can give you is to get on a program like Mike Lardy's Total Retriever Training, Smartworks, or Fowl Dawgs. FF is the basis for teaching your dog how to run blinds. Its about so much more than delivery to hand. Its about teaching them what pressure is and how to respond to it.

[pee dee]

In that case, the best advice I can give you is to get on a program like Mike Lardy's Total Retriever Training, Smartworks, or Fowl Dawgs. FF is the basis for teaching your dog how to run blinds. Its about so much more than delivery to hand. Its about teaching them what pressure is and how to respond to it.

Thanks man..I better get started then.

[FEETDOWN]

Also, check out Chris Akin's Duck Dog Basics. Its an excellent DVD for beginners and his new DVD, DDB2 that goes into blinds and more advanced training, is coming out towards the end of June.

[pee dee]

Also, check out Chris Akin's Duck Dog Basics. Its an excellent DVD for beginners and his new DVD, DDB2 that goes into blinds and more advanced training, is coming out towards the end of June.

Is that the guy that does "at the line" or something like that

[FEETDOWN]

Nah, "At the Line" is Justin Tackett. Chris Akin owns Webb Footed Kennels in Bono, AR. Very successful pro trainer. Too many HRCH's and MH's to count and also has had a lot of success in the SRS game. His video dont go into as much detail as some of the others but its very easy to follow. Very good for a beginner.

[birdboy]

Plus Feetdown hardly ever works so he can help you. In all seriousness, I don't know where you are located but getting together to train some with an experienced hunt test competitor would not be frowned upon. Good luck with your journey

[Birddawg]

If you are new to this, I would suggest the Smartworks/Smartfetch videos. They are thorough to the point that it is almost painful, but they are loaded with details. Not saying the other videos are not good.

Here is another way to look at this: A pro trainer is going to cost you around $500/month. Spending $200 or so on some videos and books is cheap in the long run.

If you plan on running hunt tests, I would strongly suggest you get involved with a training group/club and attending the club trials/training days. It will socialize the dog to the activity of a test that is almost impossible to replicate.

Have fun. There are some really knowledgeable dog people here on this forum that have been a huge help to me on my journey.

[Birddawg]

BB beat me to the point.

[SouthBryanLabs]

BB beat me to the point.

A case of premature postulation...

[pee dee]

I am right outside of Florence. I do have access to train with some guys they just haven't really started back training hard yet. I will do whatever I need to do to learn though. Thanks again for the help guys.

[SouthBryanLabs]

I am right outside of Florence. I do have access to train with some guys they just haven't really started back training hard yet. I will do whatever I need to do to learn though. Thanks again for the help guys.

Wally and Angie Elliott are not to far from you in Mullins and would be a great couple of people to get together with and train.

[mudminnow]

umm not to open a can of worms, but to your original question, is FF necessary. Yes and no. Look at duck hill kennels website for information on how to train w/o ff. Even if you do FF it has some interesting articles and videos about training various gundog behaviors. I am right now working with my two dogs and am seeing many differences between the two dogs and how the breeding affects the training. If you got a dog from a line where every dog was force fetched, then you probably need to FF. If you got a dog from a british or non force line, you probably don't need to force fetch unless you want to get a MH. British gundogs who do not naturally retrieve to hand or have little prey drive are taken out of the gene pool, so on the other side of the pond you would rarely here someone mention "building drive" with a bunch of retrieves. Also Milner suggests, and i have seen it work, that every marked retrieve reinforces the dog to break. ANd if steadiness to non retrieves and blinds are taught at an early age that will make a rock steady dog that will be able to retrieve anything an average hunter will need. Milner may be able to train a MH w/o force but right now the positive reinforcement revolution is working on how to increase reinforcemnet at long distances. I feel that it is definitely feasible to train a dog using positive methods to achieve HR or SH and has been done. There are actually a few HRCH trained with positive reinforcement out there. Do i think FF is bad, no. Is it necessary everytime? i think not

[Clemsonwoodie]

Wally and Angie Elliott are not to far from you in Mullins and would be a great couple of people to get together with and train.

This, just talk to Mr Wally yesterday.

[white quacker]

umm not to open a can of worms, but to your original question, is FF necessary. Yes and no. Look at duck hill kennels website for information on how to train w/o ff. Even if you do FF it has some interesting articles and videos about training various gundog behaviors. I am right now working with my two dogs and am seeing many differences between the two dogs and how the breeding affects the training. If you got a dog from a line where every dog was force fetched, then you probably need to FF. If you got a dog from a british or non force line, you probably don't need to force fetch unless you want to get a MH. British gundogs who do not naturally retrieve to hand or have little prey drive are taken out of the gene pool, so on the other side of the pond you would rarely here someone mention "building drive" with a bunch of retrieves. Also Milner suggests, and i have seen it work, that every marked retrieve reinforces the dog to break. ANd if steadiness to non retrieves and blinds are taught at an early age that will make a rock steady dog that will be able to retrieve anything an average hunter will need. Milner may be able to train a MH w/o force but right now the positive reinforcement revolution is working on how to increase reinforcemnet at long distances. I feel that it is definitely feasible to train a dog using positive methods to achieve HR or SH and has been done. There are actually a few HRCH trained with positive reinforcement out there. Do i think FF is bad, no. Is it necessary everytime? i think not

umm, you opened it. If you believe the BS that Milner spews out of his ejaculatory receptical then you are a step behind to start with. Milner is a great salesman, as with everything there is some truth, but Milner is in it to make money. He does a great job of BSing the average joe outdoorsman into believing he has and or does something special. How many FC's, AFC's, HRCH's, and/or MH's has he placed on dogs? For everyone that will now say "but that doesn't matter", it may not to you, but it is a uniformed way of certifying through a recognized and respected organization and registry a certain level of work that a dog is capable of.

Its real easy to impress people that don't know any better, with a dog that can run doubles or a simple blind. Put Milner's dog hanging on the side of a tree in flooded timber with 4 guys hammering the calls, fold up 3 greenheads one at 2 yards, and sail one off into the timber. That fat bastard of his will be rolled up pissing on himself, much less have the drive to no off the dead birds and run a blind to the cripple in the timber. I can't even imagine what he would do with a double posion bird blind in a MH test.

Ignorance is bliss........and Milner is making money off of it.

[chocolate lab84]

If you got a dog from a line where every dog was force fetched, then you probably need to FF. If you got a dog from a british or non force line, you probably don't need to force fetch unless you want to get a MH.

I think the yella dog guy pretty much said what I wanted......

[chocolate lab84]

To be the best..I Plan on going as far in hunt tests as our potential allows. I will be the limiting agent I do believe. He is doing really good marking 3-4 and delivering to hand. The next step from what I have been told is force fetching before we both learn blind retrieves.

From what you stated, I would FF.

FF was the only part of my current dog's training I didn't do. I sent him to a pro for 2 months. At the time it was the right choice for me but now I would probably try doing it myself after having more confidence.