Development vs. Hunting

[Sasha and Abby]

I always suspected you were a closet communist...

[MC]

Lab there are already considerable impact fees associated with development. These really have no bearing on slowing or controlling development because they are simply passed on to the consumer.

Until somebody like Westvaco can realize a significant reason why they should set land aside, they aren't going to do it. They are in business to make money, they already have govt. standards to comply with. What they need is a real motivation to set aside land not to be developed. This comes in several forms, tax credits, and the purchase of conservation easements being two popular ones that conservation groups can handle.
What I'd like to see happen is more incentive to move into longer term easements. What happens in a lot of situations is an owner will enroll a piece of land in a 10-15 or 25 year easement, take the tax credits or whatever compensation is worked out and then at the end of the easement term the land still gets developed, but what the owner has really done is minimize it's tax burden while it waits for the market to bring a higher price.
One thing the NRCS office is trying to do is get counties to assist in identification of properties that have mitigation credit value for the establishment of a mitigation credit bank. What this would do would allow you as a property owner to sell the mitigation credits for your property. That would tie your property up and limit or restrict development, but you would also make money off of doing it. Somebody like Westvaco is sitting on a lot of mitigation credits, but in the end it has to be a big enough lump in their pockets to make it worth consideration.

[LabLuvR]

The development of civilization and industry in general has always shown itself so active in the destruction of forests that everything that has been done for their conservation and production is completely insignificant in comparison.

I can see the point and agree as well. Doesn't mean that we should just throw our hands up and yell uncle. Trust me, I don't think impact fees slow down anything either. What they could do is provide funds to preserve land from development that otherwise may go unprotected.

[Low Country Sandlapper]

Y'all need to listen to MC. He knows what he's talking about.

[Claimer]

On another thought I hunted doves between 10th and 21st ave north in myrtle in 1987. There were newly planted pines and the dovlies crowded in. Thats where broadway at the beach is now.

[dukhntr]

Like Bob Dylan said, "These times they are a changin"
Sad but true

[SCSeaCraft]

I personally will not give up without a fight.I know first hand how Westvaco treats its neibors,I am one of them.My familys property in Charleston County -owned since before 1900-is under attack by development and highway improvements as we speak.The Poplar Grove development borders us on one side, 5000 acres 5000 homesites.My family and other familys bordering us with the help of every conservation group that would listen are fighting right now ,tooth and nail, with developers.Mead westvaco has an offer on the table for another 5000 acre tract that borders us on another side and I will fight that too.We are living proof that a small group of private landowners CAN and WILL make a difference.
Conservation groups need to see that landowners care and are willing to make a financial agreement through conservation easements to back up their efforts aganst development.Landowners please sit down with your financial advisors and consider a perpetual easement if not for the tax benifit than for future generations of South Carolina's hunters.
I will let everyone know what we are able to accomplish.

[LabLuvR]

SeaCraft,

My hat is off to you for such distinguished efforts. I hope you guys have deep pockets for such a battle and more so, I hope you kick their ASS!!!

5,000 homes on 5,000 acres.....good GOD!!! That is why we need a some type of incentive for preservation.Corporations such as the one you mentioned, along with many others don't give a damn about anything except the bottom line.

[Low Country Sandlapper]

One thing you boys ought not forget is that there are rural areas in this state far away from Myrtle Beach and Charleston that are begging for economic development.

[LabLuvR]

Very true LCS.

[GMAC]

The rural areas will always beg for more economic development. What will we have accomplished when we eliminate all of the rural areas in the name of econimic development? Will crime and poverty be eliminated? will all of the slackers wake up and go to work?

And no, I don't advocate confiscation of private land. What we need to realize is that the housing industry is one of the most heavily taxpayer subsidized industries in the US. The subsidies take many forms. The largest and most direct is the way in which the cost of new development is passed along to existing homeowners. That's why property taxes spiral in the boom areas. The notion of true impact fees is not a tax increase at all. It just shifts the burden from the existing property owner to the new home buyer. Requiring developers to pay something closer to the TRUE cost of their business by purchasing landfill space, building schools, fire stations, (not just donating the land), etc., and maybe even paying into a trust fund to pay for services would force them to pass the true costs on to the new homebuyers, which is where they belong. Why should I help pay for somebody's new house, just so some homebuilder can offer a lower priced product that he can unload faster? Maybe this would slow growth and restrict it to areas that can be efficiently serviced..

But, until that day, as long as the existing homeowner is subsidizing the new developments, there is nothing wrong with giving him a voice in how, where, and if new development takes place. Bottom line - don't take my money and then tell me to shut up about it in the name of somebody else's property rights. You set this up in some TRUE free market system, then you can call me a socialist if I complain.

[Low Country Sandlapper]

You obviously have a hard on for residential developers but that's not what I am talking about. What we need here is new industry and better paying jobs...not subdivisions and tract homes in dove fields. I live in an area where most of the folks with decent salaries have to drive an hour each way. That sucks.

[Mergie Master]

Originally posted by Low Country Sandlapper:
For the greater good, of course. It's all for the childen...

Amen LCS! [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

And here in lies the danger. The abuse of eminent domain can be a double edged sword! Taking it to save it or taking it to develop it either way it's still taking it! Private property rights were more than just a passing thought to the Founders, they are one of the very basic foundations of a free society, and the Founders knew this.

And an extra 'penalty' tax!

"To lay with one hand the power of government on the property of the citizen, and with the other to bestow it on favored individuals .... is none the less robbery because it is .... called taxation." --US Supreme Court in Loan Association v. Topeka (1874)

"To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical." ---Thomas Jefferson

[Wad Shooter]

With regard to MeadWestvaco and other timber companies selling off land. I do not blame them for exercizing their right as good ole American capitalists. However, one point of contention being made regarding these property divestments is that for years they have reaped the benefits of lower tax rates through agricultural/silvacultural zoning exemptions. Meanwhile the property values have exploded during this time when they were sheltered from taxes and the timber companies now stand ready to make windfall profits by selling to developers. I guess that is the American way.

I am an engineer, and our job is to ensure that development and the environment can co-exist. And as long as people keep screwing and having babies, developers & engineers will have jobs. I am hopefully done with the babies, but I am nowhere near ready to give up screwing.

[SCSeaCraft]

Well now , anyone catch the article in Fri's Post and Courier? Seems we little landowners are starting to make some serious waves in the developer pond.Thanks to Edwin Cooper of DU and many others with every enviromental group you can think of growth in my little corner of the world will be a little slower.
DHB III