anybody ever wondered???

[Nab]

BB - have heard as much too! There are some strange bedfellows visiting around Columbia these days! Funny thing is there are cameras everywhere nowadays too!

[Quack Daddy]

Yea, spill it guys.

[Nab]

I ain't saying nothing until I have indisputable proof in hand!
Duck Tape - maybe these conspiracy theories as you call them go a little far sometimes, but can you honestly say you don't believe there is no pressure from some areas to stop their "competition"?
If you don't, then you are either part of it, blind to it or just plain dumb.
If baiting the ducks on the refuge as you call it would help would you still be against it? When I say help, I mean it might take a few years and in the mean time might even hurt us hunters some - would you support it then or just be worried about the couple of years it hurt?
And no I have no way of proving that it would help but at the same time you can't say it wouldn't - so why not try it for a few yrs - 5-8yrs say - worst that could happen is the ducks hang around the refuge and the numbers don't grow - if they don't we stop - and don't say they will become dependent upon the corn - they are wild animals and will find the food they need. Tell me how this could hurt - also, I'm not worried about being fair - I worried about having some ducks here for my kids - what are you really worried about?

[KCM]

First - Art I know it does not make sence to add that 5th name into the same sentence with the others but it is true.

Something yall need to look into about planting the refuge especially if trying to get help and equipment that do not work for or are owned by the Refuge. Insurance.........if you do not have enough insurance coverage to meet their minimum requiremnets then we might as well donate seed and money.....hope for the best.

SCWF - use to have a lot to do with the refuge. When they raised money for the refuge I believe they received matching funds from somewhere. Possibly governement money or from outside private parties. Maybe rp can tell us.

[Catdaddy]

Just some thoughts;

Anywhere in the country(Ark,Miss,Ca) where there are plenty of ducks......there is a refuge close by.

Let's get the refuge up and planted and flooded. If the federal government wants to throw some shelled corn.....so be it. I wouldn't count on it because in today's environment, it won't happen. They may have done it in the past for mid-winter counts or mid-winter banding, but I would doubt they would do it today. Too many folks hollering shortstopping. Shelled corn shouldn't even be openly discussed, as it is so controversial...........but again if they do it I would not object.

Now, before anyone loads up their tractor, I think the federal government views outside help as subcontractors.........meaning you have to have a general liability insurance policy for a minimum of $1,000,000.00 before entering the property. They would probably want a certificate as proof.

Someone(KCM) needs to visit with them in person or by phone and get the do's and don't's of helping. They have equipment and just may need fuel,seed,fertizer,roundup,and nitrogen.

You won't know until you ask.

[Panther]

Same shit,different year!!!Sure do hope it will work and/or make a difference one day.

[KCM]

I like how someone means KCM .....good one there.

Seems I offered some help there once or was asked to look into a job there....seems as though $1,000,000 coverage was still not enough. I cover 6 mill in GL, 3 mill umbrella and 2 mill workers comp...wonder if my policy covers operating a tractor.

Let me work on my schedule next week and I will try to contact them for a meeting next week. I'm sure they will want to hear from me anyways.

[Nab]

It's probably gonna end up them needing the the "stuff" to plant it themselves - we will end up raising money, buying what they need and giving it to them.

[KCM]

Clean out your PM box Inabinet.

[Duckman#1]

Funny you mentioned that Nab. I talked to Mark at the refuge today and I asked him what he thought about me bringing a trailer to the poker run and people could bring seed or fert. and drop it off then give it to the refuge afterward. He liked it.

[Duckman#1]

Also in my talk with Mark he informed me that any money donated to SNWR will 100% stay at SNWR. He said right now they have some dikes leaking that need fixing and their track hoe is broke right now and needing repair. Also a water structure that need replacing.

[Candor]

I don't hunt anywhere near the refuge but cannot understand for the life of me how dumping corn would help. Perhaps if it were part of a long long term plan, but that is not a plan in-and-of-itself.

I can't imagine what Florida would say. Kind of like what we have been saying for years if refuges north of us baited. Now that would get my goat...if refuges north of us baited then that could be the death knell for duck hunting in SC. I surely hope that whatever efforts we undertake would not result in allowing refuges north of us to be baited. I am fearful that baiting ours could set precedent.

[KCM]

Yes lets clear it up - all money donated through any fund raiser here stays on site at the SNWR and used for waterfowl only.

[Nab]

Candor - dumping corn is not "the plan", it could be part of a plan that includes maitenance of dikes, water control structures, planting, flooding etc - but I have never throught of it as just dumping a bunch of corn out.
And if you think feeding doesn't take place above us then think again, but at the same time dumping corn is not going to stop a migration - you couldn't dump enough to do that - only weather and farming practices could come close to doing that. Anybody that says different is just trying the old scare tactic thing.
We're sitting around here thinking the people that are "in power" are doing the right thing - well, from the looks of things they are not and it's time to take things into our own hands - every year that goes by gets us that much further from actaully being able to help the situation.
Duckman 1 - great idea for the poker run.
KCM - the pm box is somewhat cleaned out!

[KCM]

As for seed being donated that late into the year we may need to be more specific on what type of seed. Millet, tropical corn, winter rye, etc..

Very good idea though about donating seed.

[Catdaddy]

Originally posted by Nab:
And if you think feeding doesn't take place above us then think again, but at the same time dumping corn is not going to stop a migration - you couldn't dump enough to do that - only weather and farming practices could come close to doing that.

<font size="-1" face="verdana,arial,helv">Nab, Do a search on any Arkansas forum. They are raising hell because the Federal Refuge at Bald Knob is planting and leaving standing crops . Not throwing out bait,just planting for ducks on a refuge. This same concern is happening everywhere as duck numbers plumment. Everybody is looking for some excuse to point the finger at.

Those hunters are going ballistic over the same practice that we are trying to help fund.........not even mentioning throwing out loose grain.

Please catch up with the times. Baiting on a federal refuge won't happen..........especially being (an announced) part of some plan. Please do not shoot yourself(and this new effort) in the foot with all this talk of shelled corn.

This issue is bigger than Santee,Two Rivers, and Potatoe Creek.

Think about it.

[trigger]

Phillip Lowe once wrote- " One presumes each partner in a debate uses logic. I guess that is a little presumptious with Nab." That could not be more truthful. Of course Boom Boom just compares Nabs forensic skills to that of a chimpanzee. I really wish that KCM and others would sit him down and beg him to stay out of the way this year. For the last 4 years we have heard the same rhetoric from Nab and nothing is ever done to help. Like JubIX said, Nab's heart is in it but his head is off course. There is a chance to get something, anything, done this year if Nab will keep to the sidelines where he belongs. There are plenty of people willing to give things a try as long as they don't have to deal with the ramblings of madmen. For the sake of the ducks, give someone else a chance to make a difference.

[Nab]

Catdaddy - for the last time, dumping corn would be a small part the plan - probably not even big enough to mention - and you're right it probably won't happen at all - there are bigger fish to fry than all this concern over shelled corn ok?
The thing that pisses me off is that it probably could help but all we hear are the negatives instead of the possible benefits - bottom line is it used to work - less food sure ain't working so what not try more - where's the real harm in that. I feel we hear these negatives because many people are worried that it might take away some ducks for a while - but we need to look at the future and not just this or next year.
Now those people in AR need to come to SC for a history lesson - I remember years ago hunters here bitching about our refuge holding the ducks - I was one of them - looking back it was probably the best thing we had going for us - it went and the ducks went - can I prove it's dismise was the biggest nail in the coffin - nope, maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Duck numbers everywhere are down regardless of bs we here from the FWS and others so that has played a big part in our decrease.
That being said, things should not be as bad as they are and I and many others feel the refuge could make things better in the future - probably will never get back to the good old days but better than now.
So lay off the dumped corn as being "the plan" because it isn't.

[Nab]

trigger - you're still a dumbass - go find some more asses to kiss please.

[trigger]

Nab, out of the hundreds of "plans" that you have put forth on this forum over the past 4 years, name even one that has not been openly laughed at by serious waterfowl managers. You possess no waterfowl management skills whatsoever. That is OK. You do care. You should learn enough to know that your participation hurts the very efforts that you want because you cannot see past your jealousy of corn ponders. The members of your own committee walked out on you this past term because your ramblings had gone over the edge and no one could decipher what point you were trying to make. That came out of the mouth of one of your fellow members. Not one thing that you have put forth here or on the committee has come to fruition. Not one. You have ranted and raved about the Refuge for 4 damn years Nab. Nothing has been done out of all the useless drivel you have shouted. 4 years ago Phillip Lowe put together money in 1 months time and got food planted on the Refuge. KCM has donated money each year from his Poker Run to the Refuge. DU has put money in whenever they have been asked by the Refuge. Don't you start to see the one common denominator? Lack of Nab. Whenever you come on the scene the only thing accomplished is a 4 page thread on scducks because your ideas are not in tune with reality.