anybody ever wondered???

[jwilliams]

Good job KCM...I will be there. Let's hurry up and get this done b/4 it warms up. THe fish are already killin it.
BTW...I have a call into mark now...trying to find out what they need. If he calls back, I will keep you posted.

[Moatsy]

I am in NO way opposed to the SNWR... I'd direct all of my tax money to it if I could and while I have little time to give but would donate money to a specific project (such as a new water pump).

IMHO however, this entire thread is juvenile. Attacking the people "on the Wateree" is needless and "keeping names of people who are negative" is preschool-esque...
In fact the more I think about it, fuck it, mark me down in red as a non-helper.

[KCM]

I do not think you are going to find anyone opposed to sound management of wild ducks - planting yes - dumping no. What they do on their own private property is their rights but lets not play tit for tat on Refuge property.

PLowe, JAB, Pack brothers, McElveen, Wiliki and many other private owners in that area have all offered to help plant in years past. Do yall remember that?

[jwilliams]

The refuge, if they will let it happen? They could sure use your support Moatsy. I was asking because I didn't know where you stood. I know, if you were offended, that you perceived something different.

[jwilliams]

Will someone explain why there are two factions on this subject? You would think we are discussing raising taxes between the democraps and the good guys? What gives?
[img]graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Nab]

moasty - sorry you feel that, but i've been called a dumbass on here many times for bringing up ways to help the refuge - hope you will help but if you don't I understand.

[Catdaddy]

Everyone is in favor(imho) of seeing the refuge planted and flooded. Everyone is not in favor of dumping shelled corn. People need to realize that and Nab needs to help accomplish this plan in a two step process. He shoots himself in the foot with his ultimatum type plans and threats, which includes something controversal.

Nab, I am in favor of planting the refuge........and if the feds want to dump shelled corn........ that's ok with me too . Put that in your record book.

[jwilliams]

Quit being so controversial, Nabs. It doesn't help the birds, we all believe that. I do understand your frustration, but keep yo kool, man.

"PLowe, JAB, Pack brothers, McElveen, Wiliki and many other private owners in that area have all offered to help plant in years past. Do yall remember that?"

Why would you put those four names with the fifth? That is like using George W and Teddy K in the same breath on the same side. [img]graemlins/shakehead.gif[/img]

[Swamp Rat]

I'm in favor of planting it - plain and simple. Fix the dikes, plant it, and flood it. Conduct a meaningful controlled hunt in September to thin the deer herd.

All of which will take USFWS (Federal) approval. That is sometimes harder to get moving than I would like. I understand that the Feds are opposed to dumping corn?

The Refuge can be good again - I think it deserves a shot - but we should not expect it to be what it once was. It's not the same, and it's not likely to be so again without a major (FEDERAL) overhaul. We need to be campaigning in Washington harder for this, and, if it comes to fruition, ensuring that funds raised here for it will be targeted to it exclusively. My experience with funds going into goverment agencies prompts me to say --- good luck. But we could try.

There are a lot of issues that need addressing in this state regarding waterfowl management. The Flyway Foundation is currently pursuing a program to increase nesting success in the Great Lakes region... that has been their goal from the start. Not saying that, in the future , there won't be a move to more local efforts - but, for now, that is not the plan. They are focused, which is to be applauded. Any thing else added to their plate would result in a dilution of effort.

Let's address these things in a more cooperative and less confrontational manner - there's been enough of that, and conspiracy thought, to go around.

I WILL say, THANKS to Nab, for his efforts now and in the past (Focus Group and now the Committee) to get things done. Your heart is in the right place.

[jwilliams]

As I was. Perhaps this will go forward. DOes anyone know how many productive acres of corn were flooded last year at the refuge?

[RCH]

NAB you are so full of shit, JAB offered 20 bags of corn. Yes, we do grow corn at Two Rivers, but we buy all of the corn that we feed the game with for $5 a bag, we use this corn b/c it is free of Aflatoxin and weeds; it is clean corn. I know all of this b/c i am the one who takes care of everything down there. He actually told me to hold the last 20 bags for you but now that is going to be a different case. NAB you are either attacking people for doing something or attacking people for doing nothing, MAKE UP YOUR MIND AND QUIT BEING SUCH A FENCE JUMPER!!! Don't look for any help on the wateree side with your attitude!!

[duckduckdog]

I can think of no reason why anyone would be opposed to helping the refuge out. Get something together and I'll be there. On the other hand, Nab, there are better ways to rally support than personal attacks. I for one feel that you have good intentions as for as helping the ducks, but the personal attacks are uncalled for and causes me to have less respect for you. You are in posistion on the committee to be a voice for us and keep us informed, but you constntly come on here and attack anyone who doen't agree with you 100%. I personally think its getting old. I think everyone on on this site would love to see duck hunting in this state back to what it once was, but the constant controversy and conspiracy theory is getting old. I have personally worked side by side with the people you are attacking on the FF project. I have found them to be both respectful and eager to help. For you to accuse them of is a slap in the face to everyone who worked in the 100 degree heat building nesting structures. We worked together for something we all believed will help and now you try to turn in into a grand conspiracy. Not cool.

[Swamp Rat]

Kumbaya

[Nab]

Ok - the ball is rolling and soon it will be time to put up or shut up again.
Sorry to ruffle the feathers but it's got people talking.
Now post up if you're in for some money, political support, actual planting etc.
RCH - if the corn is still available we would gladly take and put it to good use.

[Swamp Rat]

I'm up for planting, will provide political support, and will donate a little money (all I have is a little anyway).

Are the dikes and water control structures up to it?

[BigBrother]

The onliest dawg I got in this fight is that I want to see more ducks.

If you can give me dates and a place, or if I can help anyway in transportation, lemme know. I have a strong back, dont mind getting dirty- and could maybe talk some others into throwing some muscle into it to. Heck I might even be able to talk Budwieser into donating some beverages for the work day. PM me and I will give you my contact info.

[Catdaddy]

I have a friend who hunted last Monday at Jacks Creek. He said he saw about 1500 ducks leave the refuge headed towards the swamp.

How about that Naborooski? Like old times.

[Sparkleberry Ridge Runner]

I have seen first hand alot of work and effort get shot to hell quickly with no explaination. The forces that keep waterfowl habitat improvements from happening may be larger and stretch further than anyone actually can imagine. Several years back some people took it upon themselves to secure $60,000 from the parks and recreation fund. These individuals took the time to secure the money by visiting with local Senators and having them sign-off on the money. The money was to be used to created additional flooded timber areas adjacent to the Beidler impoundment. DU actually donated the pipes and water control structures to help out(the supplies were still at the Manchester Headquarters last year). The project simply disappeared with no explanation. The people that started this were pushed aside for several years until it became apparent that they would never get a reason.
I say all of this to let those of you who are working hard to provide habitat know to stay strong and stay the course.
On a side note - If you have ever been to other states and seen the WMA areas that they have, why could we not use the old Sumter Wateree swamp that is part of Manchester to create hundreds if not thousands of acres of flooded timber that could be hunted?

[Stripa Swipa]

The idea here is a noble one. Art, are you willing to head a nonprofit organization whose sole purpose and mission is to aid the refuge with solutions to help the ducks? A transparent organization with the right mission, minus the local loose canons, minus other local orgs who pose a conflict of interest, with a Memorandum of Understanding directly with the SNWR would be the best chance at an effective long term program. Resources turned over to individuals or federal agencies is too risky for my participation.

[jwilliams]

not sure I follow you banderdootbarabacoot? No, I have no desire to head up a non profit org. That is not my calling. I really don't care about other refuges and so on. I will however, work to see that the SNWR gets PLANTED. Hopefully this year. ... I hope the stories of bandaliros riding in the night pulling sneak attacks really aren't true.