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Thread: Land of the free??? Try taking pics of a cop and see

  1. #1
    Mergie Master's Avatar
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    Default Land of the free??? Try taking pics of a cop and see

    Growing Number of Prosecutions for Videotaping the Police

    Prosecutions Draw Attention to Influence of Witness Videos

    That Anthony Graber broke the law in early March is indisputable. He raced his Honda motorcycle down Interstate 95 in Maryland at 80 mph, popping a wheelie, roaring past cars and swerving across traffic lanes.

    VIDEO

    But it wasn't his daredevil stunt that has the 25-year-old staff sergeant for the Maryland Air National Guard facing the possibility of 16 years in prison. For that, he was issued a speeding ticket. It was the video that Graber posted on YouTube one week later -- taken with his helmet camera -- of a plainclothes state trooper cutting him off and drawing a gun during the traffic stop near Baltimore.

    In early April, state police officers raided Graber's parents' home in Abingdon, Md. They confiscated his camera, computers and external hard drives. Graber was indicted for allegedly violating state wiretap laws by recording the trooper.

    Arrests such as Graber's are becoming more common along with the proliferation of portable video cameras and cell-phone recorders. Videos of alleged police misconduct have become hot items on the Internet. YouTube still features Graber's encounter along with numerous other witness videos. "The message is clearly, 'Don't criticize the police,'" said David Rocah, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland who is part of Graber's defense team. "With these charges, anyone who would even think to record the police is now justifiably in fear that they will also be criminally charged."

    Carlos Miller, a Miami journalist who runs the blog "Photography Is Not a Crime," said he has documented about 10 arrests since he started keeping track in 2007. Miller himself has been arrested twice for photographing the police. He won one case on appeal, he said, while the other was thrown out after the officer twice failed to appear in court.

    "They're just regular citizens with a cell-phone camera who happen to come upon a situation," Miller said. "If cops are doing their jobs, they shouldn't worry."

    The ACLU of Florida filed a First Amendment lawsuit last month on behalf of a model who was arrested February 2009 in Boynton Beach. Fla. Her crime: videotaping an encounter between police officers and her teenage son at a movie theater. Prosecutors refused to file charges against Sharron Tasha Ford and her son.

    Videotaping as a Tool for Citizens

    "The police have cameras in their cars. I watch cops on TV," Ford said. "I'm very hurt by what happened. A lot of people are being abused by police in the same way."

    Ford's lawyer, James Green, called videotaping "probably the most effective way to protect citizens against police officers who exaggerate or lie."

    "Judges and juries want to believe law enforcement," he said. "They want to believe police officers and unless you have credible evidence to contradict police officers, it's often very difficult to get judges or juries to believe the word of a citizen over a police officer."

    In Palm Beach County, Fla., Greenacres resident Peter Ballance, 63, who has Asperger's syndrome and has to record conversations to help his memory, settled a civil lawsuit for $100,000 last year. In August 2005, police officers tackled and arrested Ballance for refusing to turn off his tape recorder.

    "You know what," said the officer, according to court documents, "I still don't want that recording device on."

    "Well, it's on," Ballance replied.

    "It is a third-degree felony," the cop said. "If you want to push it, you can go to jail for it."

    "Well, I'm pushing it now," Ballance said.

    Ballance snapped pictures of the officers. One of the cops delivered a blindside tackle. Ballance had to be treated for injuries and cardiac symptoms at a hospital on the way to the county jail. At the hospital, officers refused to let Ballance use his recorders to communicate with doctors, court papers said.

    In Portsmouth, N.H., earlier this month, Adam Whitman, 20, and his brother were charged with wiretapping, a felony in the state for videotaping police on the Fourth of July when they were called to a party and ended up arresting 20 people, many for underage drinking.

    A police spokesman told ABCNews.com that the wiretapping charges were being dropped.

    Witness Videos on the Rise

    Across the country, arrests such as these highlight the growing role of witness video in law enforcement. A dozen states require all parties to consent before a recording is made if there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy." Virginia and New York require one-party consent. Only in Massachusetts and Illinois is it illegal for people to make an audio recording of people without their consent.

    "The argument is, 'Well, can a police officer beside the highway have a private conversation with somebody that they pull over?'" said Joseph Cassilly, the Harford County prosecutor handling Graber's case.

    Cassilly added, "Suppose a police officer pulled you over and he wanted to have a talk with you. 'Sir, I smell alcohol on your breath. Can you talk to me about how much you've had to drink? Would you want somebody else to stop by and record that and put it on the Internet?"

    Rocah of the ACLU disagreed. "It's not that recording any conversation is illegal without consent. It's that recording a private conversation is illegal without consent," he said. "So then the question is, 'Are the words of a police officer spoken on duty, in uniform, in public a 'private conversation.' And every court that has ever considered that question has said that they are not."

    Rocah said actual wiretapping prosecutions, though rare, are happening more frequently. But intimidation with the threat of arrest for taping the police is much more common.

    "Prosecution is only the most extreme end of a continuum of police and official intimidation and there's a lot of intimidation that goes on and has been going on short of prosecution," he said. "It's far more frequent for an officer to just say, 'You can't record or give me your camera or give me your cell phone and if you don't I'm going to arrest you. Very few people want to test the veracity of that threat and so comply. It's much more difficult to document, much more prevalent and equally improper."

    New Video, Old Debate

    In many jurisdictions, the police themselves record encounters with the public with dashboard cameras in their cars.

    "Police and governmental recording of citizens is becoming more pervasive and to say that government can record you but you can't record, it speaks volumes about the mentality of people in government," Rocah said. "It's supposed to be the other way around: They work for us; we don't work for them."

    Graber's YouTube video, meanwhile, has helped renew the old debate about whether government has a right to keep residents from recording the police. There is even an "I support Anthony Graber and his right to freedom of expression" Facebook page with close to 600 friends.

    "Suffice it to say that our client is terrified at the prospect of these criminal charges," Rocah said.
    Last edited by Mergie Master; 07-19-2010 at 07:30 PM.
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  2. #2
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    i think its outrageously funny when a cop gets busted on film for acting like a twit.

    "Remember, you work for us.".....

    Another great post Mergie.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

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    As a law enforcement officer, I am conduct myself when dealing with the public with the assumption that someone, either for kicks or trying to capture some abuse on my part, is recording the moment. Probably on his cell phone.

    I have no issue with it.

    I wonder, in fact, how many times such recordings (if not edited, but taken in their entirety, so context is preserved) would prove that the situation was indeed handled properly.

    I, too, find the contents of police-involved recordings to be humorous at times. But my faves are when the subject, not the officer, is being an idiot publicly. Usually under the influence of alcohol or some illicit substance. Such videos FAR outnumber the rare instances of police misconduct.
    Last edited by Swamp Rat; 07-19-2010 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Removed content that was beneath my standard of conduct.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting " - Col. Townsend Whelen

  4. #4
    tradorion Coots

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    No problem at all with the video-taping of LEO activities.... there are far too many people in ALLLLL professions that do not do it right and need checking up on...

    My problem lies in SWAMPY's comment- far too often the videos get edited to intentionally show the most inflammatory aspects of the interaction and they show it in such a way as to be negatively biased...

    For example- as an instructor and one who has studied their application and used one- ASP Batons do occasionally work with a single strike but many times they do NOT and it takes multiple strikes to effect the stop.... sooooo- you edit the video to take out what initially caused the officer to strike the subject show multiple strikes that are in reality both justified and required and PRESTO you have "police brutality"

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    5-0 vidoes themselves. Dash cams anyone?

    Why get upset when a citizen does it?

    I'll agree with Green Jeans and Swampy though. Show the entire video or don't show anything.

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    That pesky common peroneal is soooo hard to hit right.
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting " - Col. Townsend Whelen

  7. #7
    tradorion Coots

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    a professional boxer trains constantly and still misses most of his punches on a moving target... yet cops who don't get to train nearly so often are expected to do perfect execution of technique by people who have the CSI/Television mentalitly where 1 shot always stops and the good guys never make a bad decision...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tradorion View Post

    For example- as an instructor and one who has studied their application and used one- ASP Batons do occasionally work with a single strike but many times they do NOT and it takes multiple strikes to effect the stop...."
    Yep sometimes just the simple act of showing the Baton is enough to get the perps attention but there are those instances where a thump or two are needed to control the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by tradorion View Post
    yet cops who don't get to train nearly so often are expected to do perfect execution
    Why is it cops dont train nearly as often as needed? I understand SOME LEO's train quite a bit, but from my encounters and conversations with several different agency members the training doesnt happen that often.
    Last edited by Chuck the Duck Slayer; 07-19-2010 at 08:53 PM.
    Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highstrung View Post
    I like fishing topwater. Will one of you jot down some of this redneck ghetto slang and the definitions for those of us who weren't born with a plastic spoon in our mouths?

  9. #9
    tradorion Coots

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    time and budget... simplest answer.

    departments budget for minimum mandatory training and often times not even that....

    officers time is what it is and if they do PT, additional range time, or other training it is on there $$ and time.

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    10-4 thanks trad.
    Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highstrung View Post
    I like fishing topwater. Will one of you jot down some of this redneck ghetto slang and the definitions for those of us who weren't born with a plastic spoon in our mouths?

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    Trad and Swamp Rat or both stand up individuals.

    I have met and know alot of law enforcement officers.
    Several of the guys I grew up with went down that path. 3 are Game Wardens and the others are small town police.

    However, I have travelled around a bit and have interacted with plenty of officers.
    Some are cool. Alot are power hungry tools....this seems to be more common in small towns and cities. Big city cops are usually a pleasure to be around.
    I am thankful for those that I feel are adequate officers.
    In my opinion, there is one thing worse than stepping on a thorn.





    .....its having to deal with a dipshit cop.
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

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    Suks don't it? Just sayin.
    Gettin old is for pussies! AND MY NEW TRUE people say like Capt. Tom >>>>>>>>>/
    "Wow, often imitated but never duplicated. No one can do it like the master. My hat is off to you DRDUCK!"

  13. #13
    tradorion Coots

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    I have no delusions at all that law enforcement, like any other profession, does indeed have assholes. I have seen and worked alongside them in many different uniforms... but i truly believe they are the minority rather than the majority.

    I always find it interesting how vividly folks remember the asshole but how easily they dismiss the good guy "just doin their job"
    Last edited by tradorion; 07-19-2010 at 09:43 PM.

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    R, you took it the wrong way maybe. I am talkin bout enforcing and what you ALL are limited too Bro. Trust me cause I help the Men & Women all the time if it's wrong.
    Gettin old is for pussies! AND MY NEW TRUE people say like Capt. Tom >>>>>>>>>/
    "Wow, often imitated but never duplicated. No one can do it like the master. My hat is off to you DRDUCK!"

  15. #15
    tradorion Coots

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    nooooo- DUCK- i was typing while you were and got distracted so i was behind you... That was not directed at anybody- just a general commentary...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tradorion View Post
    I always find it interesting how vividly folks remember the asshole but how easily they dismiss the good guy "just doin their job"
    For me, LEOs start with an A, then they do something unnecessary and get the F.
    I'm not a cop hater, and I don't put myself in situations where they are needed.
    I expect cops to "just do their job." if they do I think nothing of it and forget about the interaction altogether. If they act like a shit, I remember it for quite some time.

    I did get a hell of a good laugh at watching an overweight officer in Charlotte this past phish show.
    There was a nitrus oxide tank being run close to where we parked. Officer was trying to run up to people and pop their balloons with something sharp...keys maybe.
    One girl, completely giggle-faced high on gas was juking him better than Emmit Smith could ever hope to. He threatened her with resisting arrest while they had a car between them.
    She downed 2 balloons in front of him and perfectly executed a "You're crazy man, I like you, but you're crazy" and then sped off towards the safety of the chaotic shakedown street.
    I gained my composure and jokingly said "better luck next time man", he turned and threatened us all with arrest if we didn't vacate the premises immediately.
    I thought that was a little toolish.
    Arrest me for what? Laughing at your slow ass?
    Cool off buddy....
    Be proactive about improving public waterfowl habitat in South Carolina. It's not going to happen by itself, and our help is needed. We have the potential to winter thousands of waterfowl on public grounds if we fight for it.

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