KC Shooting

[Gander]

But again, don't banks perform any due diligence to verify valuations? Don't they share in the blame.

And now they want to charge him $87,000 a day in interest on the amount owed. Does he not get to appeal? Who benefits from the proceeds.

Btw, in sporting clays we have rules. But when you break the rules you are cheating your opponents. They are victims. So your analogy is probably not the best comparison.

[Hogg]

It is my understanding the Judge did not value Mar A Lago at $18 million. It is my understanding that the Judge used the county tax fair market value of $18 million to prove the point that Trump's valuation exceeded that amount by 2,300%. Trump valued the property based upon it being a private residence, which it is not. By county zoning it is required to be run as a club and could not be sold to someone else as a private residence. In addition to this he placed a conservation easement on the property that lowered its fair market value due to restrictions placed on the property. Trump ignored the zoning and conservation easement factors.

[Hogg]

But again, don't banks perform any due diligence to verify valuations? Don't they share in the blame.

And now they want to charge him $87,000 a day in interest on the amount owed. Does he not get to appeal? Who benefits from the proceeds.

Btw, in sporting clays we have rules. But when you break the rules you are cheating your opponents. They are victims. So your analogy is probably not the best comparison.

There is not an infinite amount of money for banks to lend. If borrowers are permitted to lie to obtain loans, there is less money to go around for the folks that play by the rules, the probability for defaults increases exponentially, which causes the banking system to suffer losses, which in turn makes the honest borrower a victim. It is not a bad analogy, just more complex than a fishing or clay tournament.

[WoodieSC]

There is not an infinite amount of money for banks to lend. If borrowers are permitted to lie to obtain loans, there is less money to go around for the folks that play by the rules, the probability for defaults increases exponentially, which causes the banking system to suffer losses, which in turn makes the honest borrower a victim. It is not a bad analogy, just more complex than a fishing or clay tournament.

Aren't the bank official held accountable for verifying the risk on any loan? If they are, they are the ones who should be held responsible for being greedy and failing to do any due diligence "to protect the banking system(s)". Maybe they should be in jail in a cell next to DT.

So if DT is such a nasty, fraudulent guy because he paid the full value of any loan back as he committed to, what does that say for Biden's future... Gitmo for influence peddling and treason that hurts all of us? What about the taxes he, Hunter, and the rest of his family haven't paid due to fraud? Who's creating the greater harm here to America? Yes, it's off topic, but curious to know where you stand on these points since your bias has always been at the forefront.

[Silentweapon338]

I'm with CatDaddy. When you realize that the judge declared him guilty at the beginning of the trial, remember the I have a tool speech??? Then you get the values off the just pick any 5, and all were woefully undervalued by the judge.

I'm not gonna argue your alcohol debate, I see where you're going, but look at the clays argument. You do have to actually break the clay to get the point. There are rules to the particular game your category you are shooting in. Once you get to the point your dealing with multi million dollar properties and borrowing against them, you can bet the bank is going to send a guy/gal who is a professional appraiser to go to the property and asses its value, to make sure you are not "over valuing" your property. You will pay for this service. At such point the bank will declare the value they will loan you.

All the banks testified to this during the trial, at least the ones that creepy judge would allow. They made a loan, they got paid back and actually made money. I know the liberals are gonna cringe at that notion, but making money is a good thing!


https://www.tiktok.com/@awkwardmama1...38607064649002

He admits he can't factor out his own emotions, and the jury gets it wrong......SAYS WHO? This creepy old dude is a tool, a tool who just wrecked many of the last few people wanting to do business in NY.

Now either Hochel is right and this is a 1 off, which means they used the legal system for a means illegally. Or She is wrong and now any developer can be targeted because he/she is perceived to have falsified the value of a property, by a DA who ran on she was going to get Trump if Elected. How does a developer know that he/she isnt gonna do something that upsets the next DA, and even though they run on cleaning up the streets, and crime. They go after this developer, the precedent is now set!

The place was already going to hell with them giving out 10k debit cards to illegal aliens, and storing them in 5 star hotels, all while sucking resources up from the very people who pay the taxes and thus the service. Now you're gonna run some of the last people out of NY who were paying the large portion of those taxes. At least Cuomo had enough sense to realize over taxing the so called rich was a bad idea. Hochel & Adams are just full steam ahead let's just crash the place.

[Silentweapon338]

Aren't the bank official held accountable for verifying the risk on any loan? If they are, they are the ones who should be held responsible for being greedy and failing to do any due diligence "to protect the banking system(s)". Maybe they should be in jail in a cell next to DT.

So if DT is such a nasty, fraudulent guy because he paid the full value of any loan back as he committed to, what does that say for Biden's future... Gitmo for influence peddling and treason that hurts all of us? What about the taxes he, Hunter, and the rest of his family haven't paid due to fraud? Who's creating the greater harm here to America? Yes, it's off topic, but curious to know where you stand on these points since your bias has always been at the forefront.

Yes, remember the Murdaugh trial?

Ask Russell Laffitte how it worked out for him.

[Hogg]

Aren't the bank official held accountable for verifying the risk on any loan? If they are, they are the ones who should be held responsible for being greedy and failing to do any due diligence "to protect the banking system(s)". Maybe they should be in jail in a cell next to DT.

So if DT is such a nasty, fraudulent guy because he paid the full value of any loan back as he committed to, what does that say for Biden's future... Gitmo for influence peddling and treason that hurts all of us? What about the taxes he, Hunter, and the rest of his family haven't paid due to fraud? Who's creating the greater harm here to America? Yes, it's off topic, but curious to know where you stand on these points since your bias has always been at the forefront.

How does one equate being critical of Trump to being supportive of Joe Biden?
I think the Biden family has grifted off the system the same as Trump's family did when he was President, but the Biden's have been doing it for 50 years just under the smell test of DC rules.
Go back and read #39.

[2thDoc]

what are y'all debating? bank tactics? borrower's rights?

newsflash: they debated this all at trial and the outcome was trump owed $345 million.

to someone's question: I have been told (not verified by the Shaman) that the new york rules are he can appeal the charges but must pay a 10% non-refundable fee. so he would pay 34mil to have the opportunity to appeal.
and I was told (not verified) that he sold truth social today for a couple billion.

while these are numbers that i dont understand, I DO understand a trial and our system and guilt.

[Silentweapon338]

How does one equate being critical of Trump to being supportive of Joe Biden?
I think the Biden family has grifted off the system the same as Trump's family did when he was President, but the Biden's have been doing it for 50 years just under the smell test of DC rules.
Go back and read #39.

I will go with your first sentence one doesn't equate to the other. But let me ask you this. Provide me with an instance in which Trump's family grifted while he was president? Everyone throws that out there when Biden is brought up, but no one has brought receipts yet.

The closest they can get is some how Jarred whom was already running a multi million dollar hedge fund got a loan for 2 billion after leaving the White House in 2022. The guy was already running a business in finance. He didn't run it while in government. What was he supposed to do when he got out just sit around? He went back to what he did before and based off actions and statements he aint going back to Washington Trump or no Trump. He wants to make money. And Saudi Arabia expects to get a return on the investment.

The difference in that and Biden is, hunter never had any experience in gas or oil other than what he put in his car, yet he was sitting on the board of a gas company in Ukraine.
James Biden was building cities to house troops in Iraq back in the day, and that dude don't know which end of a hammer to hit a nail with. He then ventured into Hospital management and defrauded Medicare. And admitted he used his family name, to become what ever he was in that scheme.

My point is show me how anyone in the Trump family grifted. If they did I can't find it. Maybe they did, but show me were. I can show you Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, Romney, AOC, Menedeze on and on. The one that sticks out to me is Trump, even though everyone claims that.

[Hogg]

Our legal system carries forward English common law. When you committed a crime in England when the King had total authority the offense was against the Crown; not society or the victim. Victim's rights are a very new phenomena in America. My point is there are many crimes that do not have victims per se. It is the state interest that is offended when the crime is committed. In this instance, the State of New York has laws that require people to conduct their businesses in a manner that is not misleading or fraudulent. It is a kind of hard concept to grasp, but too many people in here are wanting to put it back on the banks that were lied to when it is the state interest that is being promoted.

PS-I never thought I would have to explain to grown men that lying is bad.

[Gander]

I give up. Apparently banks bear no responsibility to verify or perform any level of quality control for their loans. I get it.

And believe it or not but judges and courts are not perfect. OJ got away with murder and people get locked up for crimes they didn't commit all the time.

How did they arrive at $354 million? Is that some sort of calculation? Or did the judge just pull a number out of the air?

Let's not forget for 2 years the media and Democrats accused Trump of Russian collusion based on made up evidence. Luckily that was all proven false.

And don't forget that all of these cases started the day after Trump announced his candidacy for president. Everything was cool up until that point.

[Silentweapon338]

Our legal system carries forward English common law. When you committed a crime in England when the King had total authority the offense was against the Crown; not society or the victim. Victim's rights are a very new phenomena in America. My point is there are many crimes that do not have victims per se. It is the state interest that is offended when the crime is committed. In this instance, the State of New York has laws that require people to conduct their businesses in a manner that is not misleading or fraudulent. It is a kind of hard concept to grasp, but too many people in here are wanting to put it back on the banks that were lied to when it is the state interest that is being promoted.

PS-I never thought I would have to explain to grown men that lying is bad.

Who said he lied? The judge? The judge said from the get go Trump was guilty, they gave Trump the Alex Jones treatment. There was no way trump was going to get a fair trial, the judge said so.

People are pointing out the banks because what does the judge know about real-estate? The bank does know about it. The bank and trump entered into a contract, the contract was fulfilled. The only thing you can do then is say the judge comes in and over rides the bank and their assessor and says he knows more than them, and he is declaring the value at X which was ridiculous and everyone knew it.

The only lying that happened was by Engoron and James.

[Hogg]

I will go with your first sentence one doesn't equate to the other. But let me ask you this. Provide me with an instance in which Trump's family grifted while he was president? Everyone throws that out there when Biden is brought up, but no one has brought receipts yet.

The closest they can get is some how Jarred whom was already running a multi million dollar hedge fund got a loan for 2 billion after leaving the White House in 2022. The guy was already running a business in finance. He didn't run it while in government. What was he supposed to do when he got out just sit around? He went back to what he did before and based off actions and statements he aint going back to Washington Trump or no Trump. He wants to make money. And Saudi Arabia expects to get a return on the investment.

The difference in that and Biden is, hunter never had any experience in gas or oil other than what he put in his car, yet he was sitting on the board of a gas company in Ukraine.
James Biden was building cities to house troops in Iraq back in the day, and that dude don't know which end of a hammer to hit a nail with. He then ventured into Hospital management and defrauded Medicare. And admitted he used his family name, to become what ever he was in that scheme.

My point is show me how anyone in the Trump family grifted. If they did I can't find it. Maybe they did, but show me were. I can show you Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, Romney, AOC, Menedeze on and on. The one that sticks out to me is Trump, even though everyone claims that.

We will have to agree to disagree that Jared had the experience to justify taking in $2 billion to run a hedge fund. He did some real estate deals but I don't think that puts him on the same field as Larry Fink.
Trump violated the Emoluments Clause and no one is doing a damn thing about it. When went Comer's committee went looking in China for Bidens source of funds they found nothing but did find that Trump properties took in $7.9 million from Chinese interests.

[Hogg]

Who said he lied? The judge? The judge said from the get go Trump was guilty, they gave Trump the Alex Jones treatment. There was no way trump was going to get a fair trial, the judge said so.

People are pointing out the banks because what does the judge know about real-estate? The bank does know about it. The bank and trump entered into a contract, the contract was fulfilled. The only thing you can do then is say the judge comes in and over rides the bank and their assessor and says he knows more than them, and he is declaring the value at X which was ridiculous and everyone knew it.

The only lying that happened was by Engoron and James.

Trump sat in a deposition with James's team and plead the 5th over 400 times. Remember this was a civil trial and the fact finder in a civil trial is allowed to deduce from taking the 5th over 400 times that the defendant is in fact guilty as charged. This illustrates yet another Trump character flaw; the inability to concede error.
Had he said aw shucks and expressed remorse he likely would not have gone to a trial and gotten off with a $50 million fine.
Had he turned over the classified docs to NARA rather than hiding them and telling .Gov to pound sand, he would not be in that litigation.

[DoubleSprig]

May justice come swiftly.

Like real justice.

Like within the next 11 months or so.



Because all of this is the fruition of an election stolen from the American people.

[Silentweapon338]

Trump sat in a deposition with James's team and plead the 5th over 400 times. Remember this was a civil trial and the fact finder in a civil trial is allowed to deduce from taking the 5th over 400 times that the defendant is in fact guilty as charged. This illustrates yet another Trump character flaw; the inability to concede error.
Had he said aw shucks and expressed remorse he likely would not have gone to a trial and gotten off with a $50 million fine.
Had he turned over the classified docs to NARA rather than hiding them and telling .Gov to pound sand, he would not be in that litigation.

With out trying to get to far down this rabbit hole, but you do realize we ar sin America, at least a version of it. The founders decided our rights come from God and not the king. We have a right not to self incriminate. Star chambers use to be illegal. Engeron made them, let me back up that woman that looked like a man in charge of Alex Jones' case made them possible again, Engeron just followed suit.

You, me, EVERYBODY has the right to the 5th. It doesn't mean anything you can't assume anything from not answering. In a hostile court and environment it may be your only choice. Can you imagine if Trump had answered some of their ridiculous questions??? That is all we would have seen in the media.

[scatter shot]

Trump sat in a deposition with James's team and plead the 5th over 400 times. Remember this was a civil trial and the fact finder in a civil trial is allowed to deduce from taking the 5th over 400 times that the defendant is in fact guilty as charged. This illustrates yet another Trump character flaw; the inability to concede error.
Had he said aw shucks and expressed remorse he likely would not have gone to a trial and gotten off with a $50 million fine.
Had he turned over the classified docs to NARA rather than hiding them and telling .Gov to pound sand, he would not be in that litigation.

^^^ Google calls bullshit on this one.

Despite the Fifth Amendment’s focus on testimony in criminal cases, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that the right against self-incrimination extends to civil cases as well. See McCarthy v. Arndstein, 266 U.S. 34 (1924). A witness or defendant in a civil case may assert the Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination if she can show that there is a real possibility that criminal authorities could use the information sought in a pending or future criminal case against her.

[Hogg]

You can assert the 5th in a civil case which is what Trump did. Never said you couldn't. When you do it, as Trump did, you do it at your own peril because the fact finder in a civil case can infer guilt from the fact the question wasn't answered and the 5th was invoked.
Do you get the point now?
Jesus

[Palmetto Duck]

You can assert the 5th in a civil case which is what Trump did. Never said you couldn't. When you do it, as Trump did, you do it at your own peril because the fact finder in a civil case can infer guilt from the fact the question wasn't answered and the 5th was invoked.
Do you get the point now?
Jesus

We all know what the 5th is and means. But put plainly you’re talking out of your ass in this thread in multiple posts. For one, you have no IDEA the qualifications of Jared and couldn’t name 3 for me right now of what it takes to get a billion dollar loan, OR run a hedge fund. Just because he got that loan after serving in gov does not automatically make it illegal or even shady. You get out over your skis making assumptions, convince yourself it’s true and argue with anyone who tries to point that out. Pleading the 5th does not make you guilty nor will any jury be instructed to think so. Only thing I’m trying to figure out is when did due process start to include a 10% down payment on the verdict amount to be able to appeal? I thought our rights were paid for by our forefathers and veterans. That rule, if true, would render the average defendant unable to appeal....????

[Hogg]

Supersedeas bonds have been around for a long time Palmetto Duck.
You are the one talking out your ass.