Forest Service to burn 118,000ac

[JimmyD714]

Wait...so we should get rid of oak trees? A tree that feeds game species? And replace them with what?

Not asking to be argumentative. I've never seen anyone, other than those working for USFS, in favor of massive growing season fires.

[Silentweapon338]

I will agree with predication being a reason for the decline on the population. I dont really hunt them but love watching them. We have been trapping coons, and possums for going on 6 years and our turkey population in the area has literally quadruple if not more. So much so the farmer asked could he get depredation tags for the turkeys. Obviously those critters have an effect on them.

But As I have noted earlier turning the place into Dresden circa Feb 1945 isnt exactly great for an bird that lays eggs on the ground.

[Southernduck]

What point during the year did Ma Nature burn the SE before we got in the way?

[GRW]

Summer - lighting from
Thunderstorms.

[banded_mallard]

If it’s fresh yes. The eggs are excellent. The more fire the better, our turkey population is in steep decline. One reason is because of predation. Fire gets rid of oak trees that house lots of predators and a place for a hawk to sit in.

Preach!

[santee11]

Wait...so we should get rid of oak trees? A tree that feeds game species? And replace them with what?

Not asking to be argumentative. I've never seen anyone, other than those working for USFS, in favor of massive growing season fires.

I do not remember seeing where they said it would all be a massive growing season fire, and even it was it would probably be a good thing.
There is no way we can get rid of all oak trees. Every tract has low places that will not carry a fire and those are the places for wetland oaks. The uplands are most productive when you set back succession often. This is done with fire. Oak trees feed wildlife in the fall of the year for a month or two. Grasslands feed wildlife 12 months out of the year. The buffalo herds on the great pains didn’t want to be near an oak tree. Post oak is an example of a grassland oak species it needs fire to survive. The south used to look totally different. Longleaf savannahs, grassland savannahs, and upland oak savannahs all because of fire. A lot less trees on the land scape than most people imagine. That was mostly because the native Americans burned everything all the time.

[santee11]

Tons of information out there about this, so don’t take my word for it. I’m just a forester that likes to borrow deer cameras. Screw Smokey the bear.

[quackaddict]

I just wish they would burn smaller acreages at a time, and not burn as hot when they do. All they care about is number of acres, not quality of burn.

[StrutnBPS]

Tons of information out there about this, so don’t take my word for it. I’m just a forester that likes to borrow deer cameras. Screw Smokey the bear.

In the Sandhills State Forest it seems like burning has been put aside for sale of pine straw leases. I've also noticed that instead of burning they will hire a crew of Mexicans to go through and cut all of the scrub oaks.

So, is this as beneficial as burning?

[BOGSTER]

What point during the year did Ma Nature burn the SE before we got in the way?

That has always been my question.

Santee11 - I’ve read some literature about native Americans burning a lot.
Great way to hunt game.

But in the laws of nature, adaptation and evolution seems to take much longer, and given nearly all native plants in a true savanna environment are fire dependent or at least tolerant, I have to believe that these species evolved much longer ago than humans.

[JimmyD714]

I do not remember seeing where they said it would all be a massive growing season fire, and even it was it would probably be a good thing.
There is no way we can get rid of all oak trees. Every tract has low places that will not carry a fire and those are the places for wetland oaks. The uplands are most productive when you set back succession often. This is done with fire. Oak trees feed wildlife in the fall of the year for a month or two. Grasslands feed wildlife 12 months out of the year. The buffalo herds on the great pains didn’t want to be near an oak tree. Post oak is an example of a grassland oak species it needs fire to survive. The south used to look totally different. Longleaf savannahs, grassland savannahs, and upland oak savannahs all because of fire. A lot less trees on the land scape than most people imagine. That was mostly because the native Americans burned everything all the time.

Who's to say that the Natives had it right, though?

But you do make a solid point about how long oaks feed wild game vs grasslands. I never thought of it that way. FWIW, I am not an opponent of fire but I am opposed to doing it in April and May. I believe burning is a fantastic idea and I can show you 1000's of acres in the Enoree NF that desperately need a fire to thin out the undergrowth. Nothing can live in that waste of acreage but I bet a fire would bring it back to life.

Every Spring I see it in the 2nd half of April while turkey hunting in the NF. Seems like that would be much more useful right now instead. If our season extended into May, I bet I'd still see it. I just don't typically venture back into those woods until June when I'm searching for chanterelle mushrooms!

[santee11]

Who's to say that the Natives had it right, though?

But you do make a solid point about how long oaks feed wild game vs grasslands. I never thought of it that way. FWIW, I am not an opponent of fire but I am opposed to doing it in April and May. I believe burning is a fantastic idea and I can show you 1000's of acres in the Enoree NF that desperately need a fire to thin out the undergrowth. Nothing can live in that waste of acreage but I bet a fire would bring it back to life.

Every Spring I see it in the 2nd half of April while turkey hunting in the NF. Seems like that would be much more useful right now instead. If our season extended into May, I bet I'd still see it. I just don't typically venture back into those woods until June when I'm searching for chanterelle mushrooms!

I am not saying that native Americans had it right they just managed the land to produce the most game that it could. Regular fires in the southeast set back succession and allow soils to express the most plant diversity and plants per acre. The cool thing about land is you can manipulate it to produce what ever it is you want. If you want to suppress fire you will see the landscape entirely change and normally the wildlife populations go down along with plant diversity. All of our south eastern game animals do better the less trees there are with gray squirrels being the exception. If you are an outdoorsman, a sportsman, a bird watcher, a fisherman, a tree hugger, a rare plant or an animal lover, burning will make your world better. When I hear hunters talk about how important oak trees are for wildlife I just scratch my head. They do have a place but it’s a small part. Glass lands are what have feed and offered cover to the great migrations of buffalo and African big game sense the beginning.

Bog I believe that all plants and animals where specifically created to fill any and every type of habitat. They did not evolve to fit that hole they were created.

[tman]

Summer - lighting from
Thunderstorms.

Except in the south, lightening is almost always accompanied by rain.....

[santee11]

At one time the peat in our bays burned all the time. I even remember some of them being like that around manning. They never went out, they would burn under the ground like a cigarette for years. They constantly had a haze of smoke over them even during wet weather. During dry times they would catch back on fire and lite everything else on fire around it.

[Big Time]

At one time the peat in our bays burned all the time. I even remember some of them being like that around manning. They never went out, they would burn under the ground like a cigarette for years. They constantly had a haze of smoke over them even during wet weather. During dry times they would catch back on fire and lite everything else on fire around it.

We all burned some windrows of logging debris in august in the Santee swamp when I was a baby forester. Rode in at lunchtime and lit them all. Watched them while we ate lunch and rolled out to another job. Those piles began burning underground and burned for a month or so. It took a regular frog choking rain to finally put the underground fire out. Then we thinned the pine trees at 11 years old and thinned 35 tons/acre. Good times and dang good timber dirt.

[santee11]

We all burned some windrows of logging debris in august in the Santee swamp when I was a baby forester. Rode in at lunchtime and lit them all. Watched them while we ate lunch and rolled out to another job. Those piles began burning underground and burned for a month or so. It took a regular frog choking rain to finally put the underground fire out. Then we thinned the pine trees at 11 years old and thinned 35 tons/acre. Good times and dang good timber dirt.

I was doing some work on a bird plantation in nc and one of the guys I knew took me over to the green swamp to show me how the forestry commission was trying to put out a big fire. They had to stop the canal ditch up in the section that was on fire and pump water onto it to flood it. They had big irrigation guns and pumps going at the same time spraying and flooding. It was July-hot, dry, smoke everywhere, and the thought of hell crossed my mind. I had another fire catch the section of the plantation I was working on. The forest service came and put a break around it and put it out. Like three days later it’s still smoking you could hardly put your hand on the ground where there was smoke. One Saturday I get a call they are having to bomb the fire with the airplane to put it out. I hate I missed it. If it were not for tropical storms hitting on the reg Brunswick county nc would stay on fire.

[Big Time]

I was doing some work on a bird plantation in nc and one of the guys I knew took me over to the green swamp to show me how the forestry commission was trying to put out a big fire. They had to stop the canal ditch up in the section that was on fire and pump water onto it to flood it. They had big irrigation guns and pumps going at the same time spraying and flooding. It was July-hot, dry, smoke everywhere, and the thought of hell crossed my mind. I had another fire catch the section of the plantation I was working on. The forest service came and put a break around it and put it out. Like three days later it’s still smoking you could hardly put your hand on the ground where there was smoke. One Saturday I get a call they are having to bomb the fire with the airplane to put it out. I hate I missed it. If it were not for tropical storms hitting on the reg Brunswick county nc would stay on fire.

It’s a darn shame they didn’t let the whole Green Swamp burn. Fire would probably piss off all of the briars and it would be a mosquito infested jungle with no pine trees. Pine trees were the only thing going in the Green Swamp.

[santee11]

It’s a darn shame they didn’t let the whole Green Swamp burn. Fire would probably piss off all of the briars and it would be a mosquito infested jungle with no pine trees. Pine trees were the only thing going in the Green Swamp.

That place is a hell hole.