Legal or not?

[trigger]

A lowcountry plantation has hundreds of acres of corn and rice planted. They went in and bush hogged some strips in the corn for landing areas for ducks a few weeks ago. The manager says that they are legal to do that. What is the rule?

[oltcutdown]

Legal for doves, illegal to hunt waterfowl over. They'd have done better to run the combine through there to make landing strips.

Just a question, why do they think they need 'landing strips' in flooded corn? We've never had any problem with birds landing in it. I could see it maybe for geese........

[Catdaddy]

It could very well be legal and probably will be by duck season.. It all depends on what happens to the scattered(manipulated) seeds.

What most folks don't realize is manipulation CAUSES a baited situation, therefore the 10 day rule comes into play. Manipulation doesn't prohibit you from hunting waterfowl as long as all the manipulated seeeds are gone 10 days before you hunt.

They could also bushog paths to their blinds as well as landing areas.

With all the deer,doves,turkeys,and blackbirds in the low country, I would say what they are doing will be perfectly legal by Thanksgiving.

[SCMallard]

I was under the impression that you cannot manipulate a waterfowl impoundement/field in any way, regardless of scattered seed or the 10 day rule. I have always heard this here and in AR, so I talked to a warden in Spartanburg county a couple of weeks ago b/c we have a duck pond full of corn and millet and we were wanting to bushhog a few strips and hunt doves in it at the end of Sept. He told me that if we did that we would be illegal to hunt ducks there this year. I have also been told by a couple of friends who have duck impoundments that this reason is why they leave holes when they plant for landing areas.

Sounds like conflicting info here?

[JABIII]

I agree with Cat. It could very well be legal by duck season.

Olt, we often combine landing strips in our corn fields. This year our corn is mostly over 8 feet tall and thick. In some ponds it is more like 12 feet tall. Ducks will break down in it but you can't get them to see your decoys at all. If they can't see the dekes then you can't land them where you want them...

[SCMallard]

You may be able to get a game warden to not write you a ticket b/c there may not be any seeds left, but according to federal regs it's illegal unless you are maniputing it to be a cash crop and harvesting all grain.

http://www.le.fws.gov/waterfowl_hunt_agri_lands.htm

http://www.le.fws.gov/waterfowl_problem.htm

I agree that some of the wording is sketchy, but if you go to any of the other sites and ask or call DNR or the Feds that 90% would tell you not to touch it unless you are harvesting the entire field under "normal agricultural procedure."

The following quote is from a thread on the same topic on another site by a supposedly credible source:

"The only way it can legally be touched would be to have it havested as a cash crop.

If you spray it, cut it, or knock it down, it's a violation of federal waterfowl baiting laws.

You do have a right to walk through it on the way to your blind, to set out decoys, or to retrieve game, but anything past that is a violation."

I'm interested to see what anyone else has to add about this topic. JAB, have you heard otherwise from good sources?

[Sasha and Abby]

We just go "hog hunting" in the corn fields. By the time you drive the 4 wheeler in there and find the animal and drag it out, you have a nice landing area.

[Catdaddy]

SCMallard,

Here's a question I asked back in 1999 to the USFWS Law Enforcement Division concerning this same situation.

Subj: Law Enforcement question on Crop Manipulation for Waterfowl
Date: 9111199 12:24:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: JBTxxxx
To: WEB-Reply@FWS.gov
I have a situation at my farm that needs some clarification. I have a 10 acre corn
field which I flood on November 1st for waterfowl. This year I did not use herbicides
for weed control and have a big problem with ragweed, both in and around the corn field.
On August 20, 1999 I mowed the 30 foot border around the corn field which was
ragweed only. While I was there I mowed a path through the corn field to a blind
because the ragweed is so thick you can not walk through it. This path is approximently 150 feet.
My questions are as follows:
1. Did I break any manipulation laws when I mowed the ragweed around the border
of the cornfield(ragweed only)?
2. As I understand the regulations I manipulated the cornfield when I mowed the path through the corn field.
My question is if I manipulated the field on Aug.20,1999 and do not plan to flood the field until Nov.1st and all the
scattered corn is gone(let's say by Oct. 1st) is
this any kind of violation?
Your response will be of great help to me now and in the future.
My E-Mail address is xxxxxx@AOL.com.
Sincerely
JBT

[JABIII]

Sasha, that is illegal. There was a crowd near Statesburg that kept getting into trouble for running a truck through their duck ponds. Cost them quite a bit....

SCMALLARD, it is a very sketchy situation. I highly advise combining the strips just for that reason. Why take the chance on being illegal? The ducks will get the corn off the stalk. Putting it in the water only risks spoilage.

[Catdaddy]

Originally posted by SCMallard:
You may be able to get a game warden to not write you a ticket b/c there may not be any seeds left, but according to federal regs it's illegal unless you are maniputing it to be a cash crop and harvesting all grain.

I don't read the regulations that way.

http://www.le.fws.gov/waterfowl_hunt_agri_lands.htm

The " presense of seed or grain" is the important factor in this link.

http://www.le.fws.gov/waterfowl_problem.htm

"before harvest and removal of grain" are the important words in this link.

I agree that some of the wording is sketchy, but if you go to any of the other sites and ask or call DNR or the Feds that 90% would tell you not to touch it unless you are harvesting the entire field under "normal agricultural procedure."

If they told you that then 90% would be wrong.

The following quote is from a thread on the same topic on another site by a supposedly credible source:

"The only way it can legally be touched would be to have it havested as a cash crop.

You need another credible source- this one doesn't know what he's talking about.

If you spray it, cut it, or knock it down, it's a violation of federal waterfowl baiting laws.

That's what I said in my first post---Manipulation causes a baited situation...........now the 10 day rule comes into play.


I'm interested to see what anyone else has to add about this topic. JAB, have you heard otherwise from good sources?


You will shortly...........straight from the horses mouth....as soon as my scanner starts working.

[SCMallard]

I think that regardless of the situation, you are at the mercy of the officer. Good to know other peoples' opinions on the subject though.

Catdaddy, the source of the quote that you say doesn't know what he's talking about is a wildlife officer from Mississippi. Go figure?!

[oltcutdown]

Jab, if you've seen some of our WMA's nubbin corn planted in a swamp, it usually don't get over 6ft and by the time its flooded, ducks usually don't have a problem landing in it or seeing decoys. Yall are probably doing it up nice, bt corn, herbicides, with modern equipment, etc. All the planting I've done is old school, pioneer seed, turning plow, disc, drag, 4 row planter, and mechanical cultivators in a mud hole! The AL wma's could probably double or even triple corn production if they went no till planters and used a spray rig.

Far as the legality of the issue of manipulating the crop, I wouldn't risk it. Too many CO's with attitudes around here. Sasha, it's my understanding that even walking through it and knocking the standing corn over could be considered baiting. I doubt any conservation officer would say anything about you or your dog trying to retrieve downed birds, but the way they word these regs, they are wide open for interpretation.

Had a fellow on TOS (the big one with the habitat forum) tell me that planting a row crop with no intention of harvest for the purpose of attracting migratory waterfowl was, in it's self, baiting. Well if it is, the Alabama Dept. of Conservation is guilty of it, because they've been planting corn, sorghum, millet, beans, and buckwheat for just that purpose.

Good discussion fellas.

[Catdaddy]

Here's the email response I received from Monty Halcomb, USFWS Law Enforcement Division.

Subj: Baiting/Manipulation Questions
Date:10/6/99 12:57:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Monty_Halcomb@fws.gov
To:jbtxxxxx@aol.com

If you will please call me or Mike Elkins @404-679-7057(work), we will gladly (1) explain the answers to your questions re:the waterfowl baiting regulations, and (2)obtain your address and send you a copy of the regulations. Natural vegetation may be manipulated without creating a violation under the new regulations. Regardless of when a crop was manipulated as you descibed, no violation would occur as long as all the feed was removed 10-days before a hunt. These are very general answers, and I encourage you to call us for more specific information.


You can obtain additional information about Federal baiting regulations at the following website.

www.fws.gov/r4eao/wildlife/lewfbait.html ("brochure" about waterfowl baiting)


Monty Halcomb
Law Enforcement