What will happen after Florida?

[JJ1965]

I am about to steam some big fresh salty oysters, they will make my head unhurt for a few minutes.

I just had an apple for lunch. You are killing me Rick.

[EdistoRiver614]

Our vets are a cross section of society. Most good, some evil. You can't pick out the good teachers, you can't identify the bad students, you can't profile which parent might go ballistic, and even if you know they will, you can't do anything about it until they do it. A vet, regardless of his past, could be the one to crack up and go ballistic just as quick as anyone else. You NEVER KNOW who or when.

I think a way you can address that would be if they were in a guard office separate from the building. Put a gate around the school, put them at the gate, and every off campus visitor must come through them. They patrol the perimeter and stay out of the building unless there is a threat of violence. That way there is no direct contact between the guard and the students.

[JJ1965]

I think a way you can address that would be if they were in a guard office separate from the building. Put a gate around the school, put them at the gate, and every off campus visitor must come through them. They patrol the perimeter and stay out of the building unless there is a threat of violence. That way there is no direct contact between the guard and the students.

Kind of like a prison? Except the kids never get to go out into the yard?

[EdistoRiver614]

I am about to steam some big fresh salty oysters, they will make my head unhurt for a few minutes.

I had a steak. I good till supper.

[EdistoRiver614]

Kind of like a prison? Except the kids never get to go out into the yard?

Most schools already have fences and gates. Just no one posted at them. They work well keeping kids in, no so well keeping people out.

[Black Bart]

SRO in EVERY school, with a good skill set. A step in the right direction. Response time would be seconds rather than minutes.

Counter-point to that, he/she would likely be the first person targeted, possibly/probably by ambush. But it's a start. I think the SRO should have a securable office with a sturdy safe containing a SBR that he/she brings to work in a discrete case and secures every day. But that's just me.

Agreed.

[Bownut]

Most schools already have fences and gates. Just no one posted at them. They work well keeping kids in, no so well keeping people out.

Okay, what happens when another Charles Whitman gets on the roof of a house next to the playground or someone drives a vehicle over a four foot chain link fence onto it? Crazy people are gonna crazy, but you can't live in fear all the time. Sounds like you might be ready for a career change. Hell, I've worked in prisons for 24 years and I ain't scared to go to work. There are no simple answers, but taking freedoms from people because of a few nuts is no answer either. Laws only affect law abiding people.

[EdistoRiver614]

Who said I'm scared? In all of my responses have I taken a single right away from someone? It's about protecting students.

[joshua2]

And how do you keep one of them from cracking up and whacking a bunch of 4th graders if they get a mind to? I mean, we can't even keep the teachers from screwing he kids anymore, you see that in the news every week as well.

There is pure evil in this world. There has been since Adam and Eve ate that forbidden fruit, and there will be until our Lord and Savior comes back and does away with it.

Where's that damm mush room cloud thingy when you need it!

[duckman88]

I would say that there is no 'preventing' it from happening. I do think that things like bulletproof glass/doors and door glass is a start. Make it to where once a classroom door is closed, those inside are safe from at least a significant amount of shooting (I know that 'bulletproof' stuff all has limitations). 'Security' as a broad term, could go a long way in deceasing the number of victims available to shooters. I also think proper training of the staff AND STUDENTS could help. A girl I saw interviewed said that when the first shots started that kids pulled out their phones to snapchatch the 'event' because they thought it was a joke. Run, Hide, Fight. Unfortunately our kids live in a world, as do we, where this is useful knowledge.

[Swamp Rat]

After Sandy Hook, it was widely agreed upon that hunkering down in place during a lock down is a bad idea, unless it's your only option. If I was a teacher and had a door that opened to the outside of the school, I'd be un-assing the building with my students and putting distance between me and the threat.

Lanza found a large number of his targets doing what they were told to do... shelter in place. Closets and bathrooms became killing fields. GTFO if you can. Fortunately, I think that is what a lot of these folks did yesterday.

[Buckhunter99]

I don't think that there is going to be just one thing that can be done. First off I am sure that most of us agree that guns don't kill people it is stupid people that kill people. So ban on guns wont help because a ban only keeps honest people from obtaining guns. Look at Chicago to prove that point. More strict backgrounds checks wouldn't hurt but those only work if you purchase a gun from a dealer because black market dealers don't give to shits about the law. This school did have a guard and he gave his life to save some students. No he wasn't armed but he did everything in his power to do his job. Just as someone stated what are you going to do when someone climbs on top of a building and starts shooting people from a distance. There is no ONE good answer but fighting about it definitely is not going to fix anything. We need to put personal agendas to the side and find solutions that help control these kind of situations because we all know they WILL NOT stop without all of our rights being taken away. Our schools are locked everyday to step foot in the school you have to buzz the office which views you on a tv screen and you have to tell them what you are needing to do. If they feel that it is legit they will buzz you in the first set of doors then the next set after the first is closed. Is it perfect no but it is a start. I am sorry but we cant protect everyone all the time. Most parents and teacher and law enforcement do the best they can but unfortunately shit happens that is out of the control of anyone involved. We can have the best of plans in place but at some point in time there WILL be a failure. It is what we do after that failure that defines who we are.

[Mars Bluff]

Maybe schools should shut down for a couple of years. They can't protect em. I see a lot of people that never went through school that are smarter than the graduates. Lord knows some of em need shutting down for good.

[duckman88]

After Sandy Hook, it was widely agreed upon that hunkering down in place during a lock down is a bad idea, unless it's your only option. If I was a teacher and had a door that opened to the outside of the school, I'd be un-assing the building with my students and putting distance between me and the threat.

Lanza found a large number of his targets doing what they were told to do... shelter in place. Closets and bathrooms became killing fields. GTFO if you can. Fortunately, I think that is what a lot of these folks did yesterday.

Understand, my point is that not everyone is going to be able to run, so making the classrooms as 'impenetrable' as possible is a start IMO. Again, I throw out words like impenetrable and bullet proof loosely because I know that at the end of the day, very few things are actually impenetrable or bullet proof. Anything that forces the shooter to take a longer time to get to potential victims is start.

[led0321]

It doesn’t matter if they use an F150, a can of gas or an AR15.

Unfortunately it seems that Lanza made it cool to use the AR and it’s almost always an AR since then. This whack job bought it himself and had a million warning signs. At what point do we profile these folks to where the background check can catch it? What slippery slope does that begin? Even if another AR was never sold there are so many now it wouldn’t matter or they would use an F150 and run over kids at recess or after they pulled a fire alarm.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Swamp Rat]

My more lengthy four bits...

There is no perfect protection. And, yes, evil will find a way. Look at Europe, the land of gun control, and see how the radical elements have, to a large degree, simply changed to another set of tools to commit mayhem. Trucks and knives. In China... edged weapons (at schools and train stations). Evil is everywhere, it is innovative, and it doesn't differentiate between political systems. Communist, socialist, democratic. Evil cares not, it's there. Neither you nor the schools or any institution can provide perfect protection for you, your kids, or your co-workers.

All you can do is the best you can to lessen the chances that a threat gets in in the first place, and to deal with it if it does.

How?

1) Better trained SRO's who are on their game and equipped to handle a threat. SRO's are in constant contact with our legacy, our children, and should be the cream of the LE community crop when it comes to being approachable AND able to handle threats. An approachable SRO is more likely to be told by a student that Little Johnny just said he was bringing his dad's shotgun to school on Tuesday. The SRO should be kept fully apprised of any concerns the school administration has over a potential threat student (or parent.. or anybody). He/she should have the mentality of running to the sound of gunfire and be able to use proper application of deadly force and sound tactics to put the threat down.

2) Access should be limited to as few entries as possible, and those entries should be locked down except when letting students in or out at the beginning and end of the school day. Only one way to get in otherwise, "buzzed in", and all should be monitored by video. Eyes on the screen. IF Little Johnny isn't supposed to be there, don't buzz him in. Especially if he has his dad's 870.

3) To the extent possible, school admins and counselors should notify law enforcement of ANY student, parent, or other individual that may be a threat. I'm talking expressed threats from the individual, or other CONCRETE matters. That system could also be used to victimize people, so... be careful. Apparently, this guy in Florida was known to everybody, including the FBI. Yet, he got in.

I'm generally against the idea of teachers or admins being armed, as it presents a hell of challenge to law enforcement and has huge safety ramifications. The amount of training required to make them effective at stopping a threat without putting students, teachers, or LE at risk surpasses what most people outside of LE and the military can grasp. It is estimated that LEO's miss their target with 50%-70% of their shots.... imagine the implications of that in a hallway potentially packed with screaming, running kids. Your kids. Now, put a teacher in that situation... Plus, if I'm on an active shooter deployment with my team from my department, roll in without a REAL good description of the threat, and a teacher pops out of a room with a gun, there is likely to be another family getting notified of a death. In an active shooter situation at a school recently (up north I think), there was a "blue on blue" shooting of one officer by another - they didn't know each other, different departments. We are aware of and willing to take those chances. Teachers, well, I don't have any expectation that they would have the needed skill set. Not saying they don't, but the amount of training and coordination with LE agencies would be enormous.

I've intentionally avoided the news for the most part on this most recent event. What I HAVE heard is a lot of finger pointing on who knew what when. Some gun control squabble. What I'm gathering is, this guy was a known problem, bought the gun and "passed the background check" (I'm assuming NICS), and got into the school. Yeah, the ball was dropped somewhere - it sounds like a visit from local LE may (or may not) have been called for (depending on the level of evidence). And he should not have gotten into the building.

My four bits.

[Swamp Rat]

Unfortunately it seems that Lanza made it cool to use the AR and it’s almost always an AR since then. This whack job bought it himself and had a million warning signs. At what point do we profile these folks to where the background check can catch it? What slippery slope does that begin? Even if another AR was never sold there are so many now it wouldn’t matter or they would use an F150 and run over kids at recess or after they pulled a fire alarm.

Yeah, it's a slippery slope. Expect to see someone suggest that people who meet this guy's profile to get a "flag" in NICS somehow. The problem with that is that it can be abused, even if they put an automatic "sunset" on it.

Dwight Eisehower summed it up: "If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom."

[Palmetto Bug]

I'd like to see firearms training in every school starting with elementary. Expand shooting sports activities for kids and demystify guns so that they learn about them in a healthy atmosphere and not from TV and FPS video games.

[Rubberhead*]

A couple of observations:

1) The FBI is having a very bad week,
2) Trump and the sheriff are talking about mental health as the cause (refreshing), and
3) Schools have federally-mandated and very strict gun restrictions yet seem to be one of the preferred places for mass gun violence.

[2thDoc]

i cant read all this from the gun crowd. I'm sorry. I dont want an armed guard at a fucking school. I want kids playing and laughing and learning. Before you get me with the "shut up, tooth, the big boys are talking about current issues"--YOU'RE NOT. You're talking about ways fixing the outcome, not the problem.

I have a place I fish where we have to lock boats to these stupid little clips so an alarm goes off when someone tries to steal them. Its a pain in MY ass to deal with. How about let's try to find ways to enforce laws on the guy that buys the boat when its cut in half to recycle?

With shootings in schools we have to stop being pussies about mental health and BAD PEOPLE. The issue is political correctness and being afraid to call a spade a spade. the BAD PEOPLE need to to change---NOT ME.