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Thread: Shotgun Fitting

  1. #1
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    Default Shotgun Fitting

    Trying to learn to shoot a shotgun correctly. When I shoulder it naturally, I can see the entire rib. When I force my face down on the comb to correct being able to see the rib, it beats the piss out of my cheek bone, to a point where I don't even want to shoot anymore. This is the case with both brands of shotguns that I have. Neither one came with shims but I believe the Remington V3 is shimable. What do I need to look at here to correct the fit, or mounting the gun issue.

  2. #2
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    I had the same problem. I thought I needed to "not see" the rib to be hitting correctly. I went to PMS http://www.pmsfirearms.com/index.php

    Mike hooked me up. When it was all said and done I'm hitting exactly where I'm looking, and not trying to focus on the rib and bead. (when I shoulder and anchor the gun correctly) Heck, my bead has been gone for 8 years or more. Best money I've ever spent on a gun.

    PS, If I look at the rib I still see most of it. It's just the fact that I was wrong on what I thought the sight picture needed to be.
    Last edited by Tha Dick; 01-11-2018 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #3
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    When you shoulder the gun, are you bringing it to your cheek first and then to your shoulder, or shouldering first, then bringing it to your cheek?

  4. #4
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    Don't know to be honest.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by scmoose View Post
    Don't know to be honest.

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    From reading I thinking I should be doing cheak then shoulder?


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tha Dick View Post
    I had the same problem. I thought I needed to "not see" the rib to be hitting correctly. I went to PMS http://www.pmsfirearms.com/index.php

    Mike hooked me up. When it was all said and done I'm hitting exactly where I'm looking, and not trying to focus on the rib and bead. (when I shoulder and anchor the gun correctly) Heck, my bead has been gone for 8 years or more. Best money I've ever spent on a gun.

    PS, If I look at the rib I still see most of it. It's just the fact that I was wrong on what I thought the sight picture needed to be.
    I agree, with all of this. I went to have my gun fitted with him. It was rainy and nasty so we didn't do everything he normally does, but my shooting got better. and know that i know what the sight picture is supposed to look like i can switch between my over under and semi auto seamlessly. Concerning seeing the rib, i also can see it. On my O/U there is a mid bead and if i am set up right the mid and end bead stack up like a figure eight with the target above the barrel
    Last edited by mudminnow; 01-11-2018 at 08:53 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by scmoose View Post
    From reading I thinking I should be doing cheak then shoulder?


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    should be one motion. practice shouldering in front of a mirror a couple thousand times

  8. #8
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    At 30 yards holding my face down on the stock, beating the piss out of my cheak bone, so all the beads line up and I don't see the rib, the gun seems to shoot at point of aim. I just assumed that if I can see the rib, stacking the beads it would shoot high. I haven't confirmed this though.

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    Last edited by scmoose; 01-11-2018 at 09:01 AM.

  9. #9
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    yeah, but to see your target you want it floating above the barrel. and if you are aiming at something flying through the air you are going to miss it. With lead and vision it helps to have what you are shooting at not covered by the barrel. There are people on here that know alot more than me on this subject.

  10. #10
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    Go to Deep River and take a class. They will fit as best as possible with the gun you have.

  11. #11
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    There is fallacy that when you mount a shotgun, you shouldn't see any rib, just the bead(s). That is completely false. The top shooters see quite a bit of rib and almost all the pros have their shotguns shooting high as a result. This is the way you should be shooting a shotgun. Can you imagine driving down the road looking flat down the hood of your truck?

    Keeping the eye above the rib allows you to see the target better. Go look at any of the PSCA shows on YouTube and you will notice they mount the gun low in the pocket of their shoulder and are over the rib of their gun.

    Over time, your brain works out this so you point the gun on line with the target.

    The fact that you are getting cheek slap tells me you aren't mounting the gun properly. Without watching you mount the gun I can't say definitively what you are doing wrong but in the past I have seen this happen when the shooter is standing too upright with the gun too high in the shoulder. This is probably the case since you are saying you see a lot of rib. Guns nowadays come setup with a lot of drop, if you are standing with a lot of weight on the front foot with your head forward, you should have plenty of drop.

    Too many shooters take a rifle stance, like a flagpole, to shoot a shotgun. Your weight should be distributed on the front foot, eyes level, shoulders level, head forward.
    Last edited by Gander; 01-11-2018 at 09:34 AM.

  12. #12
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    "Shotgun fitting"... Come on guys... Sounds like a bunch of men trying on wedding dresses at a bridal shop. Here is how I "fit" a gun... I go to the store. I buy a gun. Then I put ammo in it, and then I shoot it... Usually, I wait until I am outside the store. Usually...

  13. #13
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    It is simultaneous but the cheek should meet the stock slightly before the stock gets to the shoulder. Lots of good points from the others here too.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gander View Post
    There is fallacy that when you mount a shotgun, you shouldn't see any rib, just the bead(s). That is completely false. The top shooters see quite a bit of rib and almost all the pros have their shotguns shooting high as a result. This is the way you should be shooting a shotgun. Can you imagine driving down the road looking flat down the hood of your truck?

    Keeping the eye above the rib allows you to see the target better. Go look at any of the PSCA shows on YouTube and you will notice they mount the gun low in the pocket of their shoulder and are over the rib of their gun.

    Over time, your brain works out this so you point the gun on line with the target.

    The fact that you are getting cheek slap tells me you aren't mounting the gun properly. Without watching you mount the gun I can't say definitively what you are doing wrong but in the past I have seen this happen when the shooter is standing too upright with the gun too high in the shoulder. This is probably the case since you are saying you see a lot of rib. Guns nowadays come setup with a lot of drop, if you are standing with a lot of weight on the front foot with your head forward, you should have plenty of drop.

    Too many shooters take a rifle stance, like a flagpole, to shoot a shotgun. Your weight should be distributed on the front foot, eyes level, shoulders level, head forward.
    I only get cheak slap when I force my head down so I don't see the rib, which I thought was the right sight picture, which I now know may not be the correct way. When I just pick the gun uo and shoulder it and see the rib, I don't get cheak slap.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLS View Post
    Go to Deep River and take a class. They will fit as best as possible with the gun you have.
    Yes, I shoot with those guys from time to time and know the MD. I need to get up with him on shotguns and leave the pistol at home.

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  16. #16
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    I was taught to level the rib, the bead centered in the rib and the pattern should be fairly centered up/down right/left on the top edge of the bead, 60/40 up and down as preferred. I check my sight picture by shouldering the gun quickly with eyes closed then open them to see if the reference points already mentioned are aligned. I think I understand the shimming is so that your head/cheek/shoulder to put you in the perfect sight picture for proper poa/poi but in my mind the gun should pattern with the rib leveled and bead centered and the gun shimmed so you are aligned with those reference points. Probably wrong on some of this and am interested in learning more. All I know is on a turkey gun I want it to shoot with the rib leveled and bead centered, maybe a tad high.
    Worship the LORD, not HIS creation.

    "No self respecting turkey hunter would pay $5 for a call that makes a good sound when he can buy a custom call for $80 and get the same sound."-NWiles

  17. #17
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    I'm no expert but I've had a lot of lessons from world class instructors and shooters. Below is a general idea of what has stuck with me.

    You should be looking over the rib, not lined up with it and down it. The beads shouldn't line up. My gun has the bead removed. Shotguns are pointed, not aimed.

    Stand facing a mirror about 10 feet away. Your back foot should be perpendicular to the line to the mirror. Your front foot should be comfortably angled about 45 degrees from that line. Your gun should be level with the top of the stock just below your arm pit. Bring the gun smoothly to your face while looking at yourself in the mirror. Do not move your head. Learn to ignore the barrel and beads completely. In the mirror, see if it is pointed at your dominant eye. Do that a few thousand times. This will give you an idea of how well your gun fits. Practicing your mount without looking in a mirror will help train you to look at the barrel...which is not good.

    In actual practice, when you do it right and learn to not look at the barrel, you will hit stuff seemingly by magic. Try not to think about lead. Focus hard on a small detail of the target. Your eye hand coordination alone will put the gun where it needs to be. Your mind can do the math and work out the targeting trajectory subconsciously. If you even glance at the bead, your mind will lose its tracking data, reboot and you will stop your swing and shoot behind the target. I've heard instructors say, "Kill it with your eyes". Hard target focus is EXTREMELY important. As easy as that sounds, it will surprise you how hard it really is. If you do it right, the target slows down.

    Pros spend a lot of time before calling "pull" determining where the break point will be. They position their feet to be correct for where the target will break. Then they determine where they will first be able to acquire hard focus on the target. Their gun hold point will be somewhere between those two points, maybe half way, maybe a quarter of the way, depending on the angle and speed of the target. They will envision themselves breaking the target and rehearse the shot in their mind.

    Most times, you want to minimize the amount of movement it will take to get from low gun to mount. The faster your barrel has to swing, the more it tries to draw your eye away from the target. You want to acquire the target with your eyes as soon as possible but that doesn't mean your gun should be pointed in that direction. You will see a lot of poor shooters point at the trap and then try to keep up with the bird once it's launched. Keep your gun at the predetermined hold point and turn your head to allow you to pick up the target as soon as possible. On most targets, as you smoothly bring the gun up, don't let the target get out in front. Stay in front of it. Move with your whole upper body as a unit, not just the gun. Your gun should be on the target's track and moving with it as you bring the gun up. Ideally, if you were to accidentally fire at any point during the mount, the bird would break. Shoot when the gun gets to your cheek and don't "ride" the target. When you get in the zone and "use the force", targets break like magic.

    Take a lesson or two with a good instructor and you may be amazed how much stuff you are doing wrong. The smallest correction can make a huge difference in your shooting.

  18. #18
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    Buried in the stock or lightly touching the cheek, the gun should not beat your cheek up. Something is wrong with your mount.

    And while mounting the gun, the stock should contact the cheek and shoulder simultaneously. It doesn't always happen perfectly but that should be the goal. When that doesn't happen, you often times see the barrels dipping and flipping.

  19. #19
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    You're mounting the gun poorly. In a month go to SEWE and Griffin and Howe should be there and can get your measurements. You may be dealing with a gun with too much drop / cast etc. Good to know and is free.

  20. #20
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    Thanks for that Palmetto Bug. The whole comment I made about the rib and bead as reference is trying to use it when checking fit, not something I even remember looking at when wing shooting. When turkey hunting it is definitely used as a reference on every shot though. Most every gun I have shoots beads in that manner. I have run up on shotguns from time to time that won't shoot beads and that is why I am trying to better understand shimming for fit.

    I guess my real question is: If a gun doesn't shoot true from known reference points, even from using a good rest, then is shimming for fit the answer? Say for an all purpose gun. Sights on a shotgun just over complicate things for me at times. I've got them on a few guns but don't really like them.
    Last edited by Spur hunter; 01-11-2018 at 10:54 AM.
    Worship the LORD, not HIS creation.

    "No self respecting turkey hunter would pay $5 for a call that makes a good sound when he can buy a custom call for $80 and get the same sound."-NWiles

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