Trump’s EO on healthcare

**led0321** · 10-12-2017, 05:45 AM

I’m not sure I fully understand it but if Rand Paul is behind it I can support it.

Paul has been saying it will allow small businesses to band together across state lines.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-1...morrow-morning

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**Sportin' Woodies** · 10-12-2017, 05:53 AM

So many people are wanting on this train

**fuzzy** · 10-12-2017, 06:06 AM

Associations have existed for years. They are great when they first start because they tend to have considerably lower premiums. But, once claims start coming in, the cheaper premiums tend to disappear. Once the premiums begin to rise, the business with no major health problems pull out leaving only the "sick" business in the associations. This in turn, causes the premiums to rise even more.

The only thing that is going to save our health care system as we have known it is to make more of the front end cost the responsibility of the individual. The co-pay is what has driven the cost of insurance up. To many people have no clue of what the actually cost is for their care. All they have known for years is that it only cost them "$10" to go see the doctor.

**uga_dawg** · 10-12-2017, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by fuzzy

The only thing that is going to save our health care system as we have known it is to make more of the front end cost the responsibility of the individual. The co-pay is what has driven the cost of insurance up. To many people have no clue of what the actually cost is for their care. All they have known for years is that it only cost them "$10" to go see the doctor.

I've been on high deductible for 8 or 9 years with an HSA. You start caring alot more when it's your money.

**marsh chicken** · 10-12-2017, 06:54 AM

I'm with UGA and Fuzzy. Insurance should be there for catastrophic events and major surgery. Let doctors charge what they want based on market conditions and the service they provide. This allows the free market to work and people can choose the care they want while encouraging fiscal responsibility.

Healthcare is not a right.

**2thDoc** · 10-12-2017, 07:01 AM

^wont work

**Southernduck** · 10-12-2017, 07:04 AM

I walked out of the Doctor yesterday without paying a thing, that is insane. We had a child in February of 2016, after that we never spent a dime out of pocket last year except for medication. It makes no sense, but that is the game we are in.

One thing I do see about healthcare is the costs of goods. It makes $100,000 pickups look cheap.

**fuzzy** · 10-12-2017, 07:05 AM

Go drink some fluoride.

**2thDoc** · 10-12-2017, 07:14 AM

i'm right.

you want people to start asking a doctor: "what does that test cost?"

What you are talking about is what we have in dentistry....and what it creates is POOR CHOICES based on the perceived value of a service. I have had people choose NOT to do the right thing because "they dont have the money", then get in a $50000 car and leave my office.

The Hippocratic oath is only "do no harm" but its hard for patients to choose the right thing when money is involved.

While I like your idea and others would agree in looks good on paper, you are dealing with people and money. The libs will scream "fairness" when someone cant afford a test that could diagnose their problem.

Back to the drawing board...

**uga_dawg** · 10-12-2017, 07:20 AM

Life is full of hard choices. People make them every day.

What about the flip side, where the dentist or dr wants to talk to the patient about how they haven't used all of their available coverage for the year or that they have met their deductible, so we should do this as well. How does that fit in with the Hippocratic oath?

**2thDoc** · 10-12-2017, 07:31 AM

i cant answer for docs, but there are a lot of choices in dentistry that can be made in a timely manner to best use a patient's insurance. I use the term "coupon" when I talk to my patients (granted, I honestly steer clear of talking $$ bc it shouldnt be a part of making the right choice for a tooth). My staff will look at their insurance to best choose WHEN to do the procedure. I can put something off in october and do it in january if their coupon is expired.

and, again, so you jacklegs dont misunderstand me....I agree with you guys, commonsensically. thats a word. But you wont get politicians to agree on a system that costs EVERYONE money.

**marsh chicken** · 10-12-2017, 07:54 AM

Yes...I want to ask a doctor "what does this test cost". And I want to know if I have alternatives for cheaper, better, faster, higher quality care. I want them to be able to offer that to me without insurance telling them they can't do this test or won't be paid for that test.

Why do you think a healthcare provider is exempt from discussing costs? Because the customer might make a bad decision that impacts him negatively? This happens every day in all walks of business. It's called personal responsibility. It's the customers issue if they decide not to take the advice or services offered. Personal responsibility...it's a wonderful thing.

**LC17** · 10-12-2017, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by 2thDoc

i cant answer for docs, but there are a lot of choices in dentistry that can be made in a timely manner to best use a patient's insurance. I use the term "coupon" when I talk to my patients (granted, I honestly steer clear of talking $$ bc it shouldnt be a part of making the right choice for a tooth). My staff will look at their insurance to best choose WHEN to do the procedure. I can put something off in october and do it in january if their coupon is expired.

and, again, so you jacklegs dont misunderstand me....I agree with you guys, commonsensically. thats a word. But you wont get politicians to agree on a system that costs EVERYONE money.

It's not just about making people spend their own money...it's about re-aligning incentives to let supply and demand do their work in the health care market. One example when insurance doesn't obfuscate the true cost health care: my nose is running and I just don't feel good....hmmm, it's gonna cost me $150 to go see the doctor....maybe I'll just hold off on doing that....since I just have a common cold. And your example of the 50k car owner is perfect....people put a value on everything...they'll just have to figure out how bad they want a nice car or [insert needed dental or medical procedure here].

**2thDoc** · 10-12-2017, 08:14 AM

I agree with yall but it wont fly. The government is involved and they are in the business of making decisions for those "less fortunate."

About the only way you get this to work is allowing the market to dictate....and that aint gonna happen.

**holdin down the fort** · 10-12-2017, 08:18 AM

Its a broken system for sure, but the real problem in the prices charged for for simple procedures and pharma. For some reason healthcare can charge what ever the fuck they want to because they can just bill insurance. Tell me how I can spay a dog for $150 and make money, but the same procedure on a person cost $10,000. Same meds, same suture.

**uga_dawg** · 10-12-2017, 08:18 AM

I stopped reading after "I agree with yall"

**2thDoc** · 10-12-2017, 08:20 AM

BUT

**2thDoc** · 10-12-2017, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by holdin down the fort

Its a broken system for sure, but the real problem in the prices charged for for simple procedures and pharma. For some reason healthcare can charge what ever the fuck they want to because they can just bill insurance. Tell me how I can spay a dog for $150 and make money, but the same procedure on a person cost $10,000. Same meds, same suture.

bad analogy. MORE RISK. Ask a lawyer about why medicine costs so much. Its not about the price of the suture. It costs more to insure the DOCTOR from false claims.