View Poll Results: Should Trigger Accessories that alter the rate of fire be legal?

Voters
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  • full auto's should be legal too

    36 36.73%
  • no problem with a trigger accessory, keep em legal

    28 28.57%
  • Trigger accessories affecting rate of fire should be illegal

    26 26.53%
  • AR's and other "assault rifles" should be illegal

    1 1.02%
  • Vegas was a conspiracy so just ignore my opinion

    7 7.14%
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Thread: Trigger Accesories. Where do you stand?

  1. #1
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    Default Trigger Accesories. Where do you stand?

    We might as well get this debate going since it will be heavily debated as soon as the media figures it out.

    Where do you stand on trigger accessories that alter the rate of fire? IE Bump stocks, slide stocks, gat crank, etc.

    Poll to follow

  2. #2
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    Not sure where I stand on this one. I'm fine with keeping fully automatics out of the hands of most people.

    And I'm willing to admit that an accessory that changes the rate of fire is definitely a gray area. I always thought those gimmicks were stupid before because there was no way you could aim accurately with one. But in this scenario, aiming isn't required. And short of a zombie apocalypse I'd say any scenario where aiming isn't required has to be nefarious in nature.

    And yes I get the shall not be infringed. But I'm also smart enough to know that if you make it an all or nothing argument, you run the risk of getting nothing.

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    There is no grey area on the second amendment period. I'd like to see full auto legalized
    Seeing these soulless vanilla ice lookin Yankees on a bassboat is worse than watching a woman get her implants taken out. It's just wrong. Get back in your Lund and go back to infisherman.

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    No law or regulation will ever have the capability of purging evil from the heart of a man. The existing regulations are already infringing on the constitution.

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    What does a law matter in this situation? Murder is illegal... There is an unfortunate trend with people believing that if you outlaw something, it puts it out of reach to a criminal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckin Bronco View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampshooter View Post
    What does a law matter in this situation? Murder is illegal... There is an unfortunate trend with people believing that if you outlaw something, it puts it out of reach to a criminal.
    Thank you
    Quote Originally Posted by SaltMuck View Post
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    This was an outlier case. I've worked thousands of shootings for the last 27 years and have never had a single case with a bump fire or BMF activator type system on it. Now, that having been said, there may be a rise in it with this publicity.

    Frankly, I have two opinions about them. A: I think they are as useless as tits on a boar hog, and B: No, we don't need more regulation.

    But I think it's coming on this one isolated issue. Devices like this will be low hanging and readily available fruit.

    Rolling back provisions of the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Action (FOPA) that removed the ability to have civilians (as opposed to Class III dealers and government entities) received through taxed transfers firearms manufactured in the spring of that year will not happen. Especially now. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. Right now, in fact, trying to push the deregulation of suppressors like we all want will be a non-player. Paddock essentially screwed us all, in spite of no suppressors (thus far...) being known to be used. Whatever wind there was pushing our sails in that direction just went slack, or reversed.

    Frankly, as an over abundance of precaution, I bought the parts kits I needed to finish out my last AR builds last night (at least the lower halves). Because you never know. Trump buddying up to the Dems in the last couple of weeks scares me where he really would stand on this issue.
    Last edited by Swamp Rat; 10-03-2017 at 08:59 AM. Reason: Clarification
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swamp Rat View Post
    This was an outlier case. I've worked thousands of shootings for the last 27 years and have never had a single case with a bump fire or BMF activator type system on it. Now, that having been said, there may be a rise in it with this publicity.

    Frankly, I have two opinions about them. A: I think they are as useless as tits on a boar hog, and B: No, we don't need more regulation.

    But I think it's coming on this one isolated issue. Devices like this will be low hanging and readily available fruit.

    Rolling back provisions of the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Action (FOPA) that removed the ability to have civilians (as opposed to Class III dealers and government entities) received through taxed transfers firearms manufactured in the spring of that year will not happen. Especially now. I wish it wasn't so, but it is. Right now, in fact, trying to push the deregulation of suppressors like we all want will be a non-player. Paddock essentially screwed us all, in spite of no suppressors (thus far...) being known to be used. Whatever wind there was pushing our sails in that direction just went slack, or reversed.

    Frankly, as an over abundance of precaution, I bought the parts kits I needed to finish out my last AR builds last night (at least the lower halves). Because you never know. Trump buddying up to the Dems in the last couple of weeks scares me where he really would stand on this issue.

    Yep.

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    Been stated before, but having Gorsuch confirmed on the Supreme Court was vital to the 2nd Amendment.

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    I went to visit my grandparents last night and the topic of the shooting came up.
    Both my grandparents said "they need to do something about these assault weapons, nobody needs an automatic weapon capable of shooting 50 bullets at a time". I tried to politely explain that it has nothing to do with a need and everything to do with a right that is guaranteed to me by the second amendment.

    Now before you go making assumptions about them let me say this. They are conservative, Christian, and gun owners ( both have a CWP) but they are just not well versed in modern firearms. I had to explain to them that AR does not stand for assault rifle or automatic rifle.

    It scares the crap out of me to hear people liking them talking about the need for gun control. I know their heart and intentions are good but they don't realize the pontential slippery slope this could take us down. I reminded them that Hitler implemented gun control in Germany before he started rounding up the Jews.

    I don't mean to derail the thread but I've posted this to ask two questions that kind of tie in with the poll.

    1) how serious or how big of a push are we going to see for more gun control after this?
    If Obama could not pass it after children were killed at sandy hook I don't feel as if any new gun control measures have a good chance of passing now. Especially considering the current administration and a republican majority.

    2) what's the best way for us a gun owners to educate other less die-hard gun owners on the importance of standing up for and protecting our 2nd amendment rights to the absolute fullest?
    Last edited by Duck cutter; 10-03-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck cutter View Post
    I went to visit my grandparents last night and the optic of the shooting came up.
    Both my grandparents said "they need to do something about these assault weapons, nobody needs an automatic weapon capable of shooting 50 bullets at a time". I tried to politely explain that it has nothing to do with a need and everything to do with a right that is guaranteed to me by the second amendment.

    Now before you go making assumptions about them let me say this. They are conservative, Christian, and gun owners ( both have a CWP) but they are just not well versed in modern firearms.

    It scares the crap out of me to hear people liking them talking about the need for gun control. I know their heart and intentions are good but they don't realize the pontential slippery slope this could take us down. I reminded them that Hitler implemented gun control in Germany before he started rounding up the Jews.

    I don't mean to derail the thread but I've posted this to ask two questions that kind of tie in with the poll.

    1) how serious or how big of a push are we going to see for more gun control after this?
    If Obama could not pass it after children were killed at sandy hook I don't feel as if any new gun control measures have a good chance of passing now. Especially considering the current administration and a republican majority.

    2) what's the best way for us a gun owners to educate other less die-hard gun owners on the importance of standing up for and protecting our 2nd amendment rights to the absolute fullest?
    This is/will be the most difficult part of the argument. I even struggle with it at times. Who really needs a drum magazine or a bump stock or crank or a semi auto M240 (not saying this is what the shooter had but swamp rat said you can buy one)? I don't see the need for it but, if someone else does, I support their right to own it. I understand that no laws will prevent evil men from doing evil things. The argument, when it boils down to it is one based on the heart of man. Most seem to believe that a man is an overall good person who would follow laws if put in place. We on the other hand, realize that we are not.
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  12. #12
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    Regarding #2. I'm not sure how you can. The media is so uneducated about firearms on both sides. And they have been preaching this for years. I talked to a liberal two weeks ago that literally had no understanding of the difference between full and semi automatic. He was convinced that all AK47's were fully automatic machine guns. He believes what the media has told him because he has no other reference.

    Juan Williams was on Fox yesterday reading the gun laws in Nevada and he acted like it was the wild west. He said you don't have to have a permit to buy a gun in Nevada and that machines guns were allowed with a permit. In reality these are the federal gun laws that are the same in almost all the states. You don't have to have a permit, but you have to have a background check (even though he failed to mention that). But the way he portrayed it was that you just walked in, picked one up off the shelf, and they scanned it on the way out. And I assure a ton of viewers watched that and said well that's not right. We need to fix that. If that's how they are being portrayed on Fox News, I can't imagine what its like on MSNBC.
    Last edited by uga_dawg; 10-03-2017 at 09:40 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck cutter View Post
    I went to visit my grandparents last night and the topic of the shooting came up.
    Both my grandparents said "they need to do something about these assault weapons, nobody needs an automatic weapon capable of shooting 50 bullets at a time". I tried to politely explain that it has nothing to do with a need and everything to do with a right that is guaranteed to me by the second amendment.

    Now before you go making assumptions about them let me say this. They are conservative, Christian, and gun owners ( both have a CWP) but they are just not well versed in modern firearms.

    It scares the crap out of me to hear people liking them talking about the need for gun control. I know their heart and intentions are good but they don't realize the pontential slippery slope this could take us down. I reminded them that Hitler implemented gun control in Germany before he started rounding up the Jews.

    I don't mean to derail the thread but I've posted this to ask two questions that kind of tie in with the poll.

    1) how serious or how big of a push are we going to see for more gun control after this?
    If Obama could not pass it after children were killed at sandy hook I don't feel as if any new gun control measures have a good chance of passing now. Especially considering the current administration and a republican majority.

    2) what's the best way for us a gun owners to educate other less die-hard gun owners on the importance of standing up for and protecting our 2nd amendment rights to the absolute fullest?
    Quote Originally Posted by duckman88 View Post
    This is/will be the most difficult part of the argument. I even struggle with it at times. Who really needs a drum magazine or a bump stock or crank or a semi auto M240 (not saying this is what the shooter had but swamp rat said you can buy one)? I don't see the need for it but, if someone else does, I support their right to own it. I understand that no laws will prevent evil men from doing evil things. The argument, when it boils down to it is one based on the heart of man. Most seem to believe that a man is an overall good person who would follow laws if put in place. We on the other hand, realize that we are not.
    Yes, there have always been a lot of generally pro-gun people and even firearm enthusiasts that have that same mentality. My father, who fought in WWII and later bought M1 Garands for my brothers, wondered "why people need such guns". Yesterday, I had a rolling argument for half an hour with my middle brother (who loves him a fine European double gun) about such things. He was in favor of banning further sales of MSAR's, even forbidding inheritance, and mentioned buy backs. I told him to pack sand. He claims he isn't a liberal, but, really.... And he is generally a firearms guy, when it suits his narrow definition.

    This isn't going to go away, politically. Stand vigilant.
    Last edited by Swamp Rat; 10-03-2017 at 09:41 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Here is my fear.

    The GOP congressional leadership has ostracized Trump at every turn. THEY and they alone have turned their back on him and the American people. He has stated that he may look across the aisle to further his agenda.

    Will he use some type of gun control as a bargaining chip to get his agenda, ex. tax cuts, Obamacare repeal, etc moved forward?

    If so, you can thank Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan for their betrayal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
    There is no grey area on the second amendment period.
    I agree 100%, shall not be infringed is cut and dry.

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    Another issue (anyone with a wife will agree) is that you can never win an argument against emotion. Most people (especially right after these shootings) are extremely emotional and want to believe that there is someway to prevent these shootings in the future. Unfortunately, there is not. But, no amount of facts or evidence will change the mind of a person arguing based on emotion.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by uga_dawg View Post
    Regarding #2. I'm not sure how you can. The media is so uneducated about firearms on both sides. And they have been preaching this for years. I talked to a liberal two weeks ago that literally had no understanding of the difference between full and semi automatic. He was convinced that all AK47's were fully automatic machine guns. He believes what the media has told him because he has no other reference.

    Juan Williams was on Fox yesterday reading the gun laws in Nevada and he acted like it was the wild west. He said you don't have to have a permit to buy a gun in Nevada and that machines guns were allowed with a permit. In reality these are the federal gun laws that are the same in almost all the states. You don't have to have a permit, but you have to have a background check (even though he failed to mention that). But the way he portrayed it was that you just walked in, picked one up off the shelf, and they scanned it on the way out. And I assure a ton of viewers watched that and said well that's not right. We need to fix that. If that's how they are being portrayed on Fox News, I can't imagine what its like on MSNBC.
    The ignorance on the subject is mind-boggling.
    I heard a radio dj from a local show in abbeville this morning say he was very well-versed in weapons and then he went on two seconds later to mix up the terms magazine and clips.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duck cutter View Post
    I went to visit my grandparents last night and the topic of the shooting came up.
    Both my grandparents said "they need to do something about these assault weapons, nobody needs an automatic weapon capable of shooting 50 bullets at a time".
    I've talked to two older people today & they stated the same thing. Both are "gun lovers" but have zero knowledge of modern weapons. Kind of weird. I see there was some fine weaponry in both world wars. Guess civilians didn't have any is the difference.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckman88 View Post
    Who really needs a drum magazine or a bump stock or crank or a semi auto M240 (not saying this is what the shooter had but swamp rat said you can buy one)?
    In my opinion, the second amendment was and is intended to allow the people to protect themselves from tyranny. The people of the late 1700s needed muskets to protect themselves from the tyrant of the day. Privateers used warships to fight the Barbary pirates. What tools do you need to protect yourself from the potential tyrants of today or those that may threaten in the future? What tools, in the hands of the people, prevent tyrannical actions from ever being attempted by would-be tyrants?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beauregard View Post
    In my opinion, the second amendment was and is intended to allow the people to protect themselves from tyranny. The people of the late 1700s needed muskets to protect themselves from the tyrant of the day. Privateers used warships to fight the Barbary pirates. What tools do you need to protect yourself from the potential tyrants of today or those that may threaten in the future? What tools, in the hands of the people, prevent tyrannical actions from ever being attempted by would-be tyrants?
    A hell of alot more than a fully automatic rifle.

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