Reds snappas , yep they gawna be get mo and you won't bget nuns.. best speak up .

[buckpro]

Whats worse is Chris Oliver just got promoted to be over NOAA fisheries, his claim to fame is "he led the way on several cutting edge management initiatives, including development of limited access privilege programs and fishery cooperatives and catch share programs"

He can take his Limited access privilege and catch share programs and stick them up his ass.

[marsh chicken]

Whats worse is Chris Oliver just got promoted to be over NOAA fisheries, his claim to fame is "he led the way on several cutting edge management initiatives, including development of limited access privilege programs and fishery cooperatives and catch share programs"

He can take his Limited access privilege and catch share programs and stick them up his ass.

Crony capitalism at its finest. Talk about whoring out a resource.

[b35w]

Would I be correct in assuming that the recreational fisherman has the smallest impact on numbers compared to the other 2 sectors?

[Palmetto Pride]

Yes - and the least influence because of $

[jasonw]

Would I be correct in assuming that the recreational fisherman has the smallest impact on numbers compared to the other 2 sectors?

No, you would not. The closure is directly due to the government's perception of release mortality of rec fisherman primarily. The state of FL single handedly puts us in the red.

[jasonw]

They die.

Venting tools are crap - How do I know?

Go to 100ft, catch a red snapper and properly vent him. Send a diver down with him on his release.
He'll make it back to the bottom, but I'll bet a paycheck he's laying on his side, gasping within 20 minutes.
It has been proven over and over.

They want a law, fine 1 red snapper per person, no more than 6 per boat.

That's not true. Most of the snapper we catch get back down just fine. And they have been successfully tagged and recovered in the past. I dive quite a bit and have seen many times where they easily swim up to 20' while we are doing our safety stop.

And studies prove exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

[DRDUCK]

After being with the SAFMC for 9/years back in the day, Jasonw gets it and has the data to back it. Not like when I was appointed. The data is getting better as I type. Kinda like Duck hunters, everybody wants to be one.

[b35w]

No, you would not. The closure is directly due to the government's perception of release mortality of rec fisherman primarily. The state of FL single handedly puts us in the red.

Why does the govt have that perception? Seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to get some real data over a 3-5 year period using tags.


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[DRDUCK]

Why does the govt have that perception? Seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to get some real data over a 3-5 year period using tags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sigh

[b35w]

Sigh

I'm seriously trying to learn here. Is it a perception or is it a reality. Both sides claim they are right. I've got no clue. I'd just like to know.

Catch 100 of them out em in a big fish trap and send them back to the bottom. Come back to said trap and 2 days and see if the fish is swimming or crab bait. Due in the video said he did it and fish were still alive.


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[BOGSTER]

Ask a dozen fisherman/divers, you'll get a dozen different answers.

I know that some fish make it to the bottom and die shortly after. You have seen where released fish have been caught again.....that proves nothing other than venting sometimes works, other times it doesn't.

[BOGSTER]

That's not true. Most of the snapper we catch get back down just fine. And they have been successfully tagged and recovered in the past. I dive quite a bit and have seen many times where they easily swim up to 20' while we are doing our safety stop.

And studies prove exactly the opposite of what you are saying.

Also not everybody is as proficient with a venting tool as you are Skinee.

[Palmetto Pride]

No, you would not. The closure is directly due to the government's perception of release mortality of rec fisherman primarily. The state of FL single handedly puts us in the red.

That's not what he asked. He asked about the impact not the reason for the closure. I agree we are grouped with Fla and wrongfully, but Rec impacts pale in comparison with Commercial harvest.

[jasonw]

That's not what he asked. He asked about the impact not the reason for the closure. I agree we are grouped with Fla and wrongfully, but Rec impacts pale in comparison with Commercial harvest.

Again. That is not correct. There are thousands of rec boats. There are only around 400+ snapper/grouper permits issued in the South Atlantic and probably half of those are not in use anymore. What you are saying is just not possible. Commercial snapper/grouper fisherman are a dying breed.

That being said, I agree that we should not be lumped in with FL. SCDNR did a tagging study a decade ago and they showed that 80% of red snapper recaptured were within 0.25 miles of release point, which means it's kind of a "local" fishery.

[jasonw]

Ask a dozen fisherman/divers, you'll get a dozen different answers.

I know that some fish make it to the bottom and die shortly after. You have seen where released fish have been caught again.....that proves nothing other than venting sometimes works, other times it doesn't.

Venting has proven not to make much of a difference statistically. Most fisherman and divers have no clue. Just ask me, and I will give you the correct answer. Originally around 40% mortality was used. When they passed the circle hook requirement (which reduces hook mortality), they dropped the estimates down to upper 20's (maybe 28%???). These were based on multiple studies. I saw one study support 15-20% mortality which is what I believe personally. As you mention, the deeper the higher mortality. I also think that smaller fish are more resilient probably because they don't fight as hard.

But NONE of those studies say that most of them die which is what you claimed earlier.

[jasonw]

Also not everybody is as proficient with a venting tool as you are Skinee.

I wish I knew half as much about bottom fishing as Skinnee. That being said, I'm a better dancer.

[jasonw]

I'm seriously trying to learn here. Is it a perception or is it a reality. Both sides claim they are right. I've got no clue. I'd just like to know.

Catch 100 of them out em in a big fish trap and send them back to the bottom. Come back to said trap and 2 days and see if the fish is swimming or crab bait. Due in the video said he did it and fish were still alive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hard to catch big snappers in a chevron trap, and that introduces other stress on a fish bumping around in a trap.

[jasonw]

Why does the govt have that perception? Seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to get some real data over a 3-5 year period using tags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interestingly enough, they did a tag study on gag grouper and amberjacks years ago. There was a definite correlation between depth and tag recovery/or lack of with gag, but not with the AJs. IMO, red snapper use the water column much more like AJs, and I would expect similar results. Again, I've dove in 100 feet and been circled by schools of snapper in the upper water column. Never seen a grouper ascend that far.

[Palmetto Pride]

How accurate is the data on commercial vs Rec catch totals? Given weather constraints, efficiencies in gear and incentive - there is evidence that Rec anglers kill more bottom fish in a given year ?

[jasonw]

How accurate is the data on commercial vs Rec catch totals? Given weather constraints, efficiencies in gear and incentive - there is evidence that Rec anglers kill more bottom fish in a given year ?

How good do you need it to convince you? How many rec guys do you know that struggle catching them?