Well-Managed Private Property for Turkeys

[Lynchmob]

Expand on that Tuffy. What chemistry would keep certain makes from breeding?

[Tuffy]

Don't ask me to find it, but there were some studies that indicated that the reproductive capabilities of sub-dominant birds decline notably once dominance was established. They were both less capable of breeding successfully and much less-accepted by the hens. There were also some indications that hens would tend to reject closer relatives in Nature's way of encouraging evolution and adaptability. One conclusion of that was that additional relocation of birds would likely trigger the kind of growth that we saw when we did it the first time. DNA relationships and the reproductive chemistry hasn't been looked at closely in quite a while....Since the wrap-up of restocking/relocation. I think it was found that the dominant bird was least likely to be closely related to those in the area that he dominated. It was all interesting, but obscure. I'll just have to leave it with my doubts about any male breeding the hens.

[Coastal Woodie]

All of my turkey hunting tracts are small but I've seen a decrease in the population the last few years. On my 200 acre farm (realistically closer to 400 due to land locked properties) I killed an average of 2 gobblers off of it every year from 2006-2013. I didn't hunt it at all in 2014 due to having better properties to hunt and had 6 gobblers on the property in 2014. In 2015 there wasn't a single gobbler on the property during the season and the same for 2016. The wintering flock consisted of approximately 60 birds with an average of 6-8 long beards, I just don't know where they disappeared to in the spring. This year it has seemed to have bounced back, there was 5 gobblers a couple weeks ago and I saw 5 jakes and 1 gobbler this afternoon.

My 'honey hole' property has decreased rapidly, I gained permission at the end of the 2013 season. 2014 brought close to 30 gobblers in mid march and I killed 5 gobblers off of it that year and there was a ridiculous amount of old turkeys on it. Every bird I killed had over 1 1/4 spurs. 2015 brought over 30 gobblers in march as well and I saw over 10 long beards during a few hunts. In 2016 the birds were completely gone except for some jakes and one 2 year old gobbler, this year is about the same. The small 60 or 70 acre tract is surrounded by several hundred acres of pines belonging to a timber company. This year they logged part of the neighboring land and the birds have virtually vanished. The logging along with a housing development moving in across the street has turned an astounding turkey habitat into a wasteland. There are a few birds remaining and I saw 4 long beards this weekend but the recent logging have kept them on the opposite side of the property line.

4 or 5 other properties that had a healthy population from 2006-2012 have less than half the birds now as compared to just a few years ago. This is all in the Conway/Loris/Longs and Aynor area.

[Calibogue]

I literally have watched a flock of birds turkey within 100 yards of logging equipment in burned open quail woods the past 2 weeks!
They pay it no attention at all...

[LabLuvR]

No they don't but when that clear cut turns about two years old the turks will abandon it as you know. 900 acres were severly thinned by my house about six or seven years ago. The turk numbers have tumbled since, hence the main reason I hate a fucking pine tree.

[Tuffy]

One could probably identify a relatively small number of regional flocks across the state and track their growth and decline since the 70's. It seemed to me that this would encourage a similar limited number of habitat "types" that we could evaluate across the state. Yours would, in my thoughts, be one of those "Lower River/Farm" areas that was one of the last to grow significantly. We might call it the "Pee Dee Flock", but I think we could find a consensus from Johnsonville-to-Hartsville-to-Chester-to-Dillon-to-Conway that it peaked just a few years ago. We're at various stages with the others, however you might identify them. One thing that I was hoping to find here was an idea of the "havens" that the various flocks found in their areas in the form of well-managed private properties. What was appealing about those properties and how they were managed for hunting are about the only guide that I think we are going to find. I don't know of any areas of broad multi-property growth like we have seen in the past. There were hints around Spartanburg and Chester, Hampton, and Williamsburg, but I think there were just some good properties and/or statistical oddities that made it look that way.

[Marv870]

With that much pressure, they will completely change their behavior!
The ongoing study at Webb will clearly demonstrate that when it is released to the public.

Anyone hunted there in the past two years that voluntarily carried a GPS?

Yes I hunted Webb and carried the GPS.

[Tuffy]

Yes I hunted Webb and carried the GPS.

Cali, we never got back to that question. Curious why you asked. Did you? I saw some of the first data that showed hunter movements and tracked gobblers together and it was interesting, but have never been able to have it all in my hands to study more closely.

[Tuffy]

This wasn't the original stuff I had seen, but I think it touches on the sexual chemistry/genetics that I mentioned. http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetic...l.pgen.1003697


There have even been indications that females have body reactions to discourage successful breeding by subdominant birds. This wasn't turkeys, but we don't know that it's not also true. Certainly not in a world where we kill more turkeys earlier in the breeding period and wonder why such a large percentage of hens seem to have no poults. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal.../405787a0.html

[Carolina Counsel]

I wish I understood it better. My inlaws have multiple farms of 100-600 acres, all of which are primarily ag. There are of course sections of woods which are not managed for timber or wildlife worth a flip. The ag is just that- not wildlife plots just row crops that are rotated for cotton, beans, sorghum, etc. sometimes they are fallow. I am a decent turkey hunter. I am no stud. I have hunted their farm for 16 weekends. I have killed 19 birds. I had one unsuccessful hunt because my dad didn't shoot the damn bird. I have also put a buddy on a bird there, so total harvest is 20 birds in 16 weekends. It is utterly ridiculous how many turkeys they hold and they do absolutely nothing and are covered up in coyotes. Go figure.

[Gut_Pile]

hence the main reason I hate a fucking pine tree.

This is one comment that I hear so often but never understand.

A managed pine stand will out produce a hardwood forest in terms of food and cover 10 fold if done correctly.

[nitro5x6's]

Explain.

Preferred turkey food or Pine Goat food??

This is one comment that I hear so often but never understand.

A managed pine stand will out produce a hardwood forest in terms of food and cover 10 fold if done correctly.

[SOUTHERN WOODS]

I can show you two adjoining properties that total 1700 acres that have been thinned with several down to a basal area of 40. Burn those stands on a rotational basis and the turkeys love them. One block was burned about a month before the season opened and the grasses are already coming back. It is a paradise.

All boils down to proper management.

[Gut_Pile]

Both, other than a couple months worth of food in the fall, what benefits does a mature hardwood forest give to wildlife?

I'm not saying turkeys don't live there, but in my experience, they don't live there in near the numbers as managed pines.

[Gut_Pile]

That being said, my opinion is from observation on the properties I've hunted. I'm definitely not a biologist and would love for someone to explain to me the benefits of all types of ecosystems for turkeys.

[Tuffy]

Me, too, GP. Still, I think I know it when I see it. It's neither managed pines mature hardwood forest, but it doesn't hurt to have both nearby.

[buckpro]

Great topic. I'm no expert but since I started trapping our place our numbers have gone through the roof. It helps neighbors are aggressively trapping also. 350ish acres and what isn't bottoms is managed for quail. Last year the best we could figure was we had 18 plus longbeards using the property.

[Coastal Woodie]

The most densely populated turkey property I've ever seen is about 1000 acres of pines and cut overs with a couple fields. There isn't a swamp on the property other than the waccamaw river 2 miles away. It isn't mamanged for any wildlife but has a ton of turkeys. Doesn't make any sense when 2 miles down the road I have a large white oak swamp with plenty of food plots and fields around that's struggling to hold turkeys.

[Calibogue]

A managed pine forest is far more productive than a climax hardwood forest no doubt.
The volume of grasses and forbes in a seasoned pine stand like I mention is incredible.

To the contrary, those mature hardwood stands provide what the pine stands do not......water, soft mast, and other tasty critters like grubs and crawdads.
I also have placed emphasis on restoring some mixed pine/hardwood stands that rarely see fire but support low brush such as blueberries.

Nitro, these burned pine stands are loaded with new growth, scattered seed, and crispy insects!
They are also somewhat camouflaged when loafing about and can see an infinite distance to avoid predation.

We have an area that borders a creek bottom but the hill on my side of the creek is 12 year old long leaf wit scattered mature long leaf throughout.
I hunted there on Sunday morning and saw 8 gobblers, 6 jakes, and countless hens....this is nothing abnormal for this location.
We have begun to prepare the area for straw raking but I preserved some areas to remain natural by leaving the native wiregrass.
Most of the birds roost on the hill in the mature long leaf, not the bottom!

[Tuffy]

Habitat Suitability Index modeling:
https://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/hsi/hsi-106.pdf


Ideal turkey range in Alabama was described as follows by Davis (1976:22):
lilt is generally agreed that ideal wild turkey range in Alabama
consists of a minimum of 5,000 acres of a multi-aged, mixed, pinehardwood
forest, interspersed with ample meadow or grassy openings.
Ideal range should also have a relatively open understory, consisting
of shrubs, vines, saplings and small trees, a high percentage
of which are dogwood and other food-producing types such as plums,
mayhaws, and muscadines. Openings may account for as much as 25-30
percent of the total acreage, provided these are several in number
and are well di stributed throughout the forested habitat. Ideal
range is well watered with springs, small streams, ponds, or rivers
and consists of the usual mixture of hardwood forest tree species,
including a number of different kinds of oaks ."
Habitats providing poor turkey range include large acreages of even-aged,
short rotation pine plantations, intensive agricultural areas (particularly
row crops), and areas with either dense human populations or high levels of
human activity (Davis 1976).

His "poor turkey range" beliefs may be outdated now.